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Poor people pay for parking even when they can’t afford a car

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Re: Poor people pay for parking even when they can’t afford a car

#141

Post by FatalLogic »

greggman wrote: post #97
jedberg wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The traffic reduction will come from two sources -- fewer cars and the fact that the cars can drive at optimal speed, reducing unnecessary slowdowns. That being said, while some cars would need to be stationary, there are plenty of people moving around all day long.

Do we know there will be fewer cars? Self Driving cars allow all non-drivers to use a car.

Yes, that's so, although I think it's fair to assume that many non-drivers don't use a car because of the cost, not because they're unwilling to drive or incapable of driving.

On the other hand, the cost of car ownership could be reduced with self driving cars.

Re: Poor people pay for parking even when they can’t afford a car

#143

Post by mantas »

CydeWeys wrote: post #93
dba7dba wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I'd be very surprised if shared self driving cars lead to a major reduction in excess parking, or lower the number of traffic jams. I agree. Years ago in a certain Asian city when chauffeurs were still common for well off families, traffic around luxury department stores was bad even during day time. A chauffeur would drop off the housewife for a shopping trip, and than he would drive around and around until her sho…

You're still assuming that everyone owns their own self-driving car, though. Given that the average person only uses a car for one hour per day it's silly that you'd keep idle a car that can drive itself for those other 23 hours. It makes sense to share the entire fleet. So after you get dropped off at the mall, the car is off to pick up its next passenger, and you get whatever self-driving car happens to be closest…

One of the reasons I love having a car is storage. I can go chain-shopping and store items I bought in the car. Getting a random self-driving car would make me carry all the stuff I bought with me. Kinda sucks.

Same with commuting or going to mass events. I keep some drinking water (fuck stadium/concerts pricing) in my car. I keep some gloves in case weather is colder than expected and to make sure I didn't accidentally forget them at home. Ditto on umbrella. I always got some reusable shopping bags in my trunk. Fuck paying for shitty plastic bags at grocery shop.

My mom's trunk is literally full of random crap that she uses maybe twice a year. But she loves having it there.

Using random cars (wether self-driving or not, e.g. regular taxi) would have to be much better to payoff for loosing this advantage.

Re: Poor people pay for parking even when they can’t afford a car

#144

Post by pmiller2 »

pcr0 wrote: post #129
PebblesHD wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For reference, a single car space in Sydney sold for over $100k[0]... [0] - http://www.domain.com.au/news/kirribilli-car-spot-sells-for-...

It's crazy, but that's actually the typical price of a single space in Hong Kong. A single space here sold for 620k last month.

According to http://blog.sfgate.com/ontheblock/2014/06/09/how-much-is-a-p... depending on the location, a parking spot in SF can be worth anywhere from 25-100K. Anecdotally, this makes sense, since I've heard of parking spots costing $250-300/month to rent, which would be roughly the payment on a 30 year mortgage for 50-80K.

Re: Poor people pay for parking even when they can’t afford a car

#145

Post by mantas »

sanderjd wrote: post #122
forgettableuser wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting. Now you got me thinking more about what things might change with self-driving cars. Will cars offer an "orbiting" mode where they keep driving in a circle until you are ready to be picked up. Will stores offer a driving ring where cars can drive around in circles off the main street in the case where no parking slots are available? Will cars be able to drop you off, and park themselves when a space becom…

All of your hypotheticals seem to still assume individually-used cars. This is much nearer term thinking than the real interesting stuff. Cars wouldn't need to circle or park themselves. They would just go pick somebody else up. When you're done, some other car would come pick you up.

Many people will prefer to keep individually used cars. Cars is not only transportation, but storage too. From children seats to umbrella to things you bought at previous stop.

The random self-driving car is pretty much the same as public transport. Individual cars seem to be still a thing, even though we have buses, taxis etc. Having random car pick you up is not some totally new idea that wasn't tried ever before.

Re: Poor people pay for parking even when they can’t afford a car

#146

Post by mantas »

TheSmiddy wrote: post #110
hackuser wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Another nice benefit of self driving cars that are shared is the major reduction in the need to all this excess parking. I would think that applied to any shared cars, including taxis and ride-hailing services. Why would the self-driving feature reduce parking demand beyond that?

It does, however self driving taxis can be operated far cheaper than human driver taxis. So if the cost of running your car is say $5000 a year and you can get an subscription robocar service for $100 a week then a large number of people will switch. At the moment it's only cheaper to go car free if it's possible for you to walk/ride/catch public transport to work Mon-Fri and catch the occasional taxi when needed.

Robocar for $100 a week would be $5600 a year. So individual car would be still cheaper in such case... :) Unless you start factoring in time that you were away for vacation and didn't pay for that week etc. But that'd be some Adobe-level subscription madness...

Re: Poor people pay for parking even when they can’t afford a car

#147

Post by flukus »

mantas wrote: post #139
zik wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's an example of a good tram system: http://dyob.com.au/sites/default/files/u9/96%20North%20Carlt... It's separated from the traffic so it's fast, doesn't have associated tyre and asphalt maintenance costs, and each tram carries over 200 people maximum. The service is frequent - about every five to seven minutes - and much smoother and more comfortable than a bus.

My city don't have trams but there was a political push to build them. However, bus routes were upgraded instead. Result is better than trams IMO. Some key points we do: - Popular buses run ever 5-ish minutes during peak times - Some buses have extension and cary a crapload of people. - Problematic spots have bus-only lanes. What is better than tram: - Buses that share only a bit of the route can use those lanes too…

Do you have to sit down on them like normal buses? One of the benefits of trams is the standing part so you can fit more people in. Last time I tried this on a bus the results weren't as good.

Re: Poor people pay for parking even when they can’t afford a car

#148

Post by mantas »

hibikir wrote: post #91
drcode wrote: post #30

1. Stores that offer free parking have more customers 2. Stores that have more customers can offer better prices to all their customers (including poor people) due to greater sales volumes

If stores are helped by free parking, then we should be able to leave the parking space to the market: Let retail real state builders decide how much parking space they need, and let them act in their own best interest. However, that's not how it works. A large majority of US metro areas mandate huge amounts of free parking that are enough to have space in Black Friday, whether they need it or not. For instance, ther…

Anecdotal evidence time. In my city, the "poor people" mall have the biggest and fullest parking lot. The most "premium" mall has shitty parking and best public transit access. And it's not in downtown.

Re: Poor people pay for parking even when they can’t afford a car

#149

Post by ryuker16 »

CydeWeys wrote: post #93
dba7dba wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I'd be very surprised if shared self driving cars lead to a major reduction in excess parking, or lower the number of traffic jams. I agree. Years ago in a certain Asian city when chauffeurs were still common for well off families, traffic around luxury department stores was bad even during day time. A chauffeur would drop off the housewife for a shopping trip, and than he would drive around and around until her sho…

You're still assuming that everyone owns their own self-driving car, though. Given that the average person only uses a car for one hour per day it's silly that you'd keep idle a car that can drive itself for those other 23 hours. It makes sense to share the entire fleet. So after you get dropped off at the mall, the car is off to pick up its next passenger, and you get whatever self-driving car happens to be closest…

Except the issue with traffic is commuting which occurs at roughly the same time.

You don't have much problem with Saturday shopping traffic .

Re: Poor people pay for parking even when they can’t afford a car

#150

Post by theparanoid »

bbcbasic wrote: post #100
theparanoid wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gas stations and car mechanics give cash discounts, sometimes as high as 10%.

That has to be for nefarous reasons other than the cost of CC trasactions

Avoiding taxes on checks is unlikely.
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