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Poor people pay for parking even when they can’t afford a car

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Poor people pay for parking even when they can’t afford a car

#21

Post by tonmoy »

dsfyu404ed wrote: post #10

I don't disagree with the numbers but you could make this same argument for literally any feature of a business that has the affect of making that business more attractive to customers with Y quality (where Y is not something all customers have). Let's imagine that the parking lots of Walmart, $localSupermarketChain and other stores is cut to 1/4 it's present size. What happens then? I suspect the inability to draw w…

They specifically talk about the fact that cities require a minimum number of parking to be built for businesses and residences. Now, if this requirement wasn't present then economical forces would take over, places without parking would be ideal for less wealthy people because the prices would be lower.

Re: Poor people pay for parking even when they can’t afford a car

#22

Post by zanny »

stuartaxelowen wrote: post #11
wvenable wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately insufficient parking is also a big issues; one in which these regulations are an attempt to solve. One could prevent less parking to be built but that would put more pressure on public roads. If you've ever been to an area with insufficient parking, it's pretty horrible. More so for people with cars but it affects those without cars as well.

Is it, really? Or is cars as the default transportation the problem? Come to Tokyo, you'll see how well things work with effectively no parking in general.

Its an American problem, but it isn't one you just solve banning cars or something. Post-war US built up all its major metro areas on the hype for the automobile. Where European and Asian cities are walkable, American ones are not, and to try to retrofit car cities into public transit / bike / foot traffic is insanely expensive.

Add to that America has a systemic car culture (there is a reason cars are all bigger in the US, and why it is pretty much the only market for pickup trucks) and you will never be in a position politically to transition elsewhere without destroying your favorability.

Re: Poor people pay for parking even when they can’t afford a car

#23

Post by honkhonkpants »

makecheck wrote: post #19
jedberg wrote: post #16

There was a study a while back that showed that the USA has eight times as many parking spaces as it has cars. At first that seems crazy, but it makes sense if you think about the fact that all the places you go in a day need to have enough parking to meet their peak demand all year, so places like malls have huge empty lots most of the year until Christmas rolls around. And then there is the spot your car is in at w…

There is also the concept of “ground cover” in some places. I have seen office buildings create gigantic parking lots just to “occupy” all their land so that the land cannot be taken away later. If land is completely undeveloped then it can be reclaimed in some situations, e.g. someone decides they want to build a railway.

Building a parking lot will in no way save you from the imminent domain powers of people who want to build roads and railroads. This strikes me as some kind of urban legend. Every place I've lived has mandated some ratio of parking to floor space in new office buildings, which is why office buildings are surrounded by parking.

Re: Poor people pay for parking even when they can’t afford a car

#24

Post by Keverw »

pcr0 wrote: post #18

Parking shouldn't be free. If it's to entice customers at a store/shopping mall, they can be provided an hour of parking for every x dollars spent. Under-utilised parking spots should be leased or sold. (They sell for 80-300k where I live)

80-300K for 1 parking spot or a whole lot?

Re: Poor people pay for parking even when they can’t afford a car

#25

Post by thatcat »

trentmb wrote: post #17
CalChris wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Credit cards make everything more expensive Full stop. Credit cards provide a service and that service isn't free. It gets factored into prices. https://www.merchantmaverick.com/the-complete-guide-to-credi... I'll add that Visa charges 1.43% - 2.4% of the transaction. I'd be curious to know what the cost of a cash transaction is as a percentage of the transaction. I doubt it climbs that high.

Handling cash ain't free. At a minimum, a certain amount must be kept on hand to make change. Then theres insurance on that cash. Then theres the safe (and registers) you have to buy to store the cash. Then theres the transport of the cash to the bank. Also, better hope your cashiers never make a mistake or accept a forged bill.

These aspects also have some advantage - being handled on site means having employees that spend that money locally. All the credit card fees are effectively removed from the local economy.

Re: Poor people pay for parking even when they can’t afford a car

#26

Post by closeparen »

stuartaxelowen wrote: post #11
wvenable wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately insufficient parking is also a big issues; one in which these regulations are an attempt to solve. One could prevent less parking to be built but that would put more pressure on public roads. If you've ever been to an area with insufficient parking, it's pretty horrible. More so for people with cars but it affects those without cars as well.

Is it, really? Or is cars as the default transportation the problem? Come to Tokyo, you'll see how well things work with effectively no parking in general.

Judging by photos of the crowding on Tokyo public transit, staggeringly poorly.

Re: Poor people pay for parking even when they can’t afford a car

#27

Post by CalChris »

trentmb wrote: post #17
CalChris wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Credit cards make everything more expensive Full stop. Credit cards provide a service and that service isn't free. It gets factored into prices. https://www.merchantmaverick.com/the-complete-guide-to-credi... I'll add that Visa charges 1.43% - 2.4% of the transaction. I'd be curious to know what the cost of a cash transaction is as a percentage of the transaction. I doubt it climbs that high.

Handling cash ain't free. At a minimum, a certain amount must be kept on hand to make change. Then theres insurance on that cash. Then theres the safe (and registers) you have to buy to store the cash. Then theres the transport of the cash to the bank. Also, better hope your cashiers never make a mistake or accept a forged bill.

So that's the basis of a comparison. Cost of cash vs cost of credit cards over the economy.

I can't resist an aside. A buddy of mine was in a well known cash business. You can imagine. Anyways, hanging out with him, we'd be driving around and he'd need gas. He'd pull out 2 or 3 $20s, hand them to the attendant pump gas and go. Some gas stations gave a cash discount.

It seemed to me that credit cards were supposed to be fast and convenient, but if you're choreographed for cash, it ain't so.

Re: Poor people pay for parking even when they can’t afford a car

#28

Post by djsumdog »

jedberg wrote: post #16

There was a study a while back that showed that the USA has eight times as many parking spaces as it has cars. At first that seems crazy, but it makes sense if you think about the fact that all the places you go in a day need to have enough parking to meet their peak demand all year, so places like malls have huge empty lots most of the year until Christmas rolls around. And then there is the spot your car is in at w…

I think we wouldn't see things as being nearly this bad if all American cities didn't rip out their tram networks. Every city I've lived in, even small ones with ~100k people, use to have Streetcars. Today, cities like Cincinnati struggle to get a tiny segment put in.

Trams carry a ton more people than buses. People are more likely to ride them too. If American cities hadn't given in to GM and Ford and kept streetcars instead of replacing them with buses (that have lower capacity, use up more fuel, etc.) I think parking in the US, and car ownership in general, would be very different.

Re: Poor people pay for parking even when they can’t afford a car

#29

Post by vadskye »

honkhonkpants wrote: post #23
makecheck wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is also the concept of “ground cover” in some places. I have seen office buildings create gigantic parking lots just to “occupy” all their land so that the land cannot be taken away later. If land is completely undeveloped then it can be reclaimed in some situations, e.g. someone decides they want to build a railway.

Building a parking lot will in no way save you from the imminent domain powers of people who want to build roads and railroads. This strikes me as some kind of urban legend. Every place I've lived has mandated some ratio of parking to floor space in new office buildings, which is why office buildings are surrounded by parking.

Pedantic correction: The term is "eminent domain". In fairness, if someone exercises the power of eminent domain, the domain will imminently be theirs, but that's neither here nor there.
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