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Quick, How Might the Alien Spacecraft Work?

blog.stephenwolfram.com

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Re: Quick, How Might the Alien Spacecraft Work?

#11

Post by kijin »

crooked-v wrote: post #7
disssonant wrote: post #5

Oh, but the polygonal "analysis" overlayed on that circular splotch with the drip marks as an alien's "handwriting" example is corny beyond words. Correlating an arbitrary set of points on splashy drippy smears, and eureka! It's a symbol for the global landing sites across seven continents? Yeah right. That leap in counter-intuitive conceptualization is on the level of bat shark repellant, or Roland Emerich's super c…

To me, the intent in the movie was pretty obvious: specific polygonal clusters attached to the circle act something like radicals in kanji, but with even more components that can be built into a single 'word'. Your complaint strikes me like complaining that kanji calligraphy (for example: https://i.imgur.com/wHdqJIF.jpg ) obviously can't mean anything because it's just splashy ink marks.

The circle reminds me of consistent hashing. The most popular method is to make a circle and place nodes at different points along the circumference.

A circle is an elegant way to encapsulate a lot of information in a compact symbol. These aliens could be really good at detecting angles. If their eyes have cones polarized at different angles, shapes placed at different points on the circle could appear to be written in different colors to them. That would be just as natural as words written in a line are to us. Fascinating stuff.

Re: Quick, How Might the Alien Spacecraft Work?

#12

Post by joering2 »

adriand wrote: post #6

Interesting post. But I wonder if the focus on how we would communicate with aliens makes sense. In the case of this movie, they arrived here, apparently. If they're that much more technologically advanced than we are, wouldn't they be taking the lead on communicating with us? They'd probably have a substantial set of templates for how to communicate with primitive civilizations developed already.

Not necessarily. We sent man to the moon but can we communicate with Ants?

Re: Quick, How Might the Alien Spacecraft Work?

#13

Post by Afforess »

adriand wrote: post #6

Interesting post. But I wonder if the focus on how we would communicate with aliens makes sense. In the case of this movie, they arrived here, apparently. If they're that much more technologically advanced than we are, wouldn't they be taking the lead on communicating with us? They'd probably have a substantial set of templates for how to communicate with primitive civilizations developed already.

I've seen Arrival, so minor spoilers. (rot 13)

Gur nyvraf ner sne qvssrerag sebz hf, jvgu n aba-cubargvp ynathntr gung vaibyirf "abayvarne haqrefgnaqvat bs gvzr". V chg gung va dhbgrf orpnhfr gur rssrpgf ner qrzbafgengrq va gur svyz, ohg vgf vapbzcyrgryl haqrefgbbq, ol obgu gur punenpgref naq zlfrys (gur nhqvrapr), cebonoyl vagragvbanyyl. Fhssvpr gb fnl, jvgubhg n tenfc bs gur shgher, gnyxvat gb gur nyvraf vf qvssvphyg. Gur havirefr gur svyz vf va vf qrgrezvavfgvp, fb lbh unir gb or noyr gb haqrefgnaq fbzr cneg bs gur shgher fgngr bs gur havirefr gb zbir sebz gur cnfg fgngr gb gur cerfrag fgngr.

If that doesn't make sense, go see the movie. ;)

Re: Quick, How Might the Alien Spacecraft Work?

#14

Post by _greim_ »

adriand wrote: post #6

Interesting post. But I wonder if the focus on how we would communicate with aliens makes sense. In the case of this movie, they arrived here, apparently. If they're that much more technologically advanced than we are, wouldn't they be taking the lead on communicating with us? They'd probably have a substantial set of templates for how to communicate with primitive civilizations developed already.

The answer to this is a spoiler. (Gur nyvraf' checbfr ba Rnegu vf gb grnpu hf gurve ynathntr. Vg'f fhpu na nqinaprq ynathntr gung bapr lbh yrnea gb guvax va vg, lbh tnva gur novyvgl gb rkcrevrapr gvzr aba-yvarneyl. Gur nyvraf jnag uhznavgl gb havgr, yrnea gur ynathntr naq tnva guvf cbjre, fvapr, rkcrevrapvat gvzr aba-yvarneyl gurzfryirf, gurl'ir creprvirq fbzr pngnpylfz uhznavgl pna/jvyy fnir gurz sebz va gur qvfgnag shgher.)

Re: Quick, How Might the Alien Spacecraft Work?

#16

Post by mattivc »

disssonant wrote: post #5

Oh, but the polygonal "analysis" overlayed on that circular splotch with the drip marks as an alien's "handwriting" example is corny beyond words. Correlating an arbitrary set of points on splashy drippy smears, and eureka! It's a symbol for the global landing sites across seven continents? Yeah right. That leap in counter-intuitive conceptualization is on the level of bat shark repellant, or Roland Emerich's super c…

I think you misunderstood a bit. The circular symbol is not correlated to the landing sites in any way. It's just a example of the alien's writing system, which large parts of the movie centers around deciphering.

It's a pretty good movie, i can recommend watching it.

Re: Quick, How Might the Alien Spacecraft Work?

#17

Post by schoen »

extr wrote: post #8

If anyone hasn't read the short story that Arrival is based on, definitely check it out, it's called "Story of Your Life". Ted Chiang is a fantastic SciFi writer and I was very excited (worried?) that this particular story was chosen for a film adaption, as it doesn't seem to lend itself well to the medium. But based on early feedback I'm optimistic. Not sure how closely the movie follows the short story's plot, but…

I had read the story before and I saw the movie this evening. I wrote to a friend that it's about 25% Ted Chiang and about 75% Hollywood (with some very significant changes, though a similar central theme).

I guess discussing the differences makes for a huge spoiler. Perhaps I can say that the movie has a major plot about military conflicts (obgu orgjrra uhznaf naq urcgncbqf, naq orgjrra uhzna angvbaf) that's absent from the original story. Also, in the movie we learn jul gur urcgncbqf ivfvgrq Rnegu, whereas in the story guvf erznvaf n pbzcyrgr zlfgrel.

In the story Louise ersyrpgf n terng qrny ba jung vg zrnaf gb xabj gur shgher naq ubj guvf vagrenpgf jvgu serr jvyy, while in the movie this isn't really depicted at all, except sbe gur prageny cybg nobhg xabjvat gur sngr bs ure zneevntr naq ure qnhtugre nurnq bs gvzr.

Re: Quick, How Might the Alien Spacecraft Work?

#18

Post by ntelson1s »

kijin wrote: post #10
adriand wrote: post #6

Interesting post. But I wonder if the focus on how we would communicate with aliens makes sense. In the case of this movie, they arrived here, apparently. If they're that much more technologically advanced than we are, wouldn't they be taking the lead on communicating with us? They'd probably have a substantial set of templates for how to communicate with primitive civilizations developed already.

I haven't watched the movie, but there are some possible explanations for the discrepancy you mention: 1. Perhaps all the other civilizations they've met so far communicate in a certain way (e.g. telepathy), and humans are the first intelligent species they've encountered that has the pesky requirement of audiovisual clues. They're just as busy trying to figure out how to talk to us as we are, but they're much more p…

Just saw it today. Number 2 is the reason.

Re: Quick, How Might the Alien Spacecraft Work?

#19

Post by ThePhysicist »

It's interesting (and funny) that Stephen always finds a way to use cellular automata to solve a problem. Really intrigued by the septapod handwriting though, alien writing systems tend to be one of the more interesting aspects of alien culture created for movies.

Re: Quick, How Might the Alien Spacecraft Work?

#20

Post by SkyMarshal »

schoen wrote: post #17
extr wrote: post #8

If anyone hasn't read the short story that Arrival is based on, definitely check it out, it's called "Story of Your Life". Ted Chiang is a fantastic SciFi writer and I was very excited (worried?) that this particular story was chosen for a film adaption, as it doesn't seem to lend itself well to the medium. But based on early feedback I'm optimistic. Not sure how closely the movie follows the short story's plot, but…

I had read the story before and I saw the movie this evening. I wrote to a friend that it's about 25% Ted Chiang and about 75% Hollywood (with some very significant changes, though a similar central theme). I guess discussing the differences makes for a huge spoiler. Perhaps I can say that the movie has a major plot about military conflicts (obgu orgjrra uhznaf naq urcgncbqf, naq orgjrra uhzna angvbaf) that's absent…

For the lazy: http://www.rot13.com/ :)
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