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A river of lost souls runs through western Colorado

washingtonpost.com

61–70 of 92 posts

Re: A river of lost souls runs through western Colorado

#61
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It can be chicken and egg. I imagine that for many personal lifestyle changes are more difficult than popping a pill. Once they start to feel the benefits of medication then doing things out of the norm may come easier. In my own anecdote, it was over the counter stuff like St John's Wort and valerian that helped me do the life change stuff. Also, no one lives in a vacuum. If your husband/wife and kids are all used t…

For me, as someone that's been through it, and as someone that other people in my group of friends come to for help, the thing about exercise, cleanliness, and diet is that you're right, it is a hard lifestyle change. For most people . But I notice that almost everyone gets to a point when they hit their own personal rock-bottom, and they're willing to try anything. One of my best friends said something similar when…

Much of that pushback is because that same advice can be twisted into a sort of "just will the depression away" suggestion that's kind of tone deaf and insulting to people suffering from depression. It's not uncommon for people to say exactly that, as if it's little more than a light switch that needs to be flicked off. And most of the time, those sorts of comments are pretty patronizing, along the lines of "just man up and get over it." Not yours, but I can see how people might interpret it that way based on the way others have acted towards them in the past; basically, your suggestions were judged by the words of others.

You're looking at exercise, social activity, and other lifestyle changes as a means of combating depressive symptoms. That's absolutely true, and there's a wealth of peer-reviewed evidence to support that. Almost anyone with a depressive disorder would benefit. For that matter, almost anyone would benefit. And the social aspect, with friends and family pushing and supporting you as you set out on those efforts, can absolutely play a profound role in mitigating those symptoms (assuming those around you notice; it's quite common for people even with severe depressive disorders to be able to mask their feelings from even those closest to them). But for the worst cases, and even many that aren't as severe, those first steps are the difficult on a level that those who don't suffer from depression can't really conceptualize.

Imagine a mental pain so severe that it cuts through to your very soul; an existential despair so pervasive that simply envisioning a life without it is nearly impossible. I remember a professor of mine discussing a former patient of his: the patient described her depression as an overwhelming hopelessness so great that even suicide was too much of an effort despite wanting to do just that. Obviously, she managed to get help at some point but I remember feeling goosebumps along my spine as those words were repeated to us. It was a chilling description of an inner hell that nobody realized this woman was living in.

At some point in their lives, almost every single human being will feel a sense of hopelessness, despair, sadness, etc. Even the shitty emotions are part of the human condition. It's when they start to interfere with your ability to function in everyday life, and/or they persist for a longer period of time, that you start to look at a problem beyond the norm. Depression isn't about simply hitting rock bottom; it's more about not being able to see anything but. But even that's a bit of a generalization.

Re: A river of lost souls runs through western Colorado

#63
post #41
post #6

> according to a Washington Post analysis of federal health data. I wish they'd released this.

I'm curious how significant this is. The article sounds like it might be abuse of subgroup analysis as in https://xkcd.com/882/ i.e. check every state, check a dozen demographics in each state, and one of those is going to have higher suicide rates than the rest. Doesn't mean it's some feature of that demographic instead of random chance.

You should be able to calculate the stddev and how many from the mean western Colorado is if you have a federal data set for all the subgroups. I'd be somewhat surprised if they hadn't, but you're right that I don't see any mention of it.

Re: A river of lost souls runs through western Colorado

#64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For me, as someone that's been through it, and as someone that other people in my group of friends come to for help, the thing about exercise, cleanliness, and diet is that you're right, it is a hard lifestyle change. For most people . But I notice that almost everyone gets to a point when they hit their own personal rock-bottom, and they're willing to try anything. One of my best friends said something similar when…

Much of that pushback is because that same advice can be twisted into a sort of "just will the depression away" suggestion that's kind of tone deaf and insulting to people suffering from depression. It's not uncommon for people to say exactly that, as if it's little more than a light switch that needs to be flicked off. And most of the time, those sorts of comments are pretty patronizing, along the lines of "just man…

The other problem with exercise as treatment for depression is that it's pushed as nearly magical cure that will strongly help everyone with depression.

It'd be easier to take the advice if it was pushed as "it helps some people a lot. It might help you, if only a bit".

Re: A river of lost souls runs through western Colorado

#65
I'm just going to throw this idea out - although I have no evidence either way, but: is there something in the water?

Durango's water supply is the Animas, which is downriver from Silverton, and many old, abandoned mines and basically SuperFund sites (even though there's pressure to not call them that - or get that Federal $$$ to fix the problem, for fear of tourist dollars leaving). Are there known correlations between the types of acidic chemicals and heavy metals found in this type of polluted water and mental health?

I ask because Durango is a beautiful, sunny place. It's hard not to be there in the summertime and not feel wonderful. Yes, in the winter, it's a little more clausterphobic, and you ARE in the middle of nowhere, but it doesn't have the depressive anxiety feeling of a place like Leadville used to have, when their main Moly mine closed down.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/12/opinions/pagel-animas-river-po...

Re: A river of lost souls runs through western Colorado

#66

“It’s really hard to withdraw from antidepressants,” said New York psychiatrist and pharmacology expert Julie Holland. In some cases, “people feel like cold water is running down their spine. They can feel their brain sloshing around, or electric zaps in their head.” Dang. If it's true as claimed that medications only help half the time, this seems like a strong encouragement to try things like exercise, yoga, and li…

There is a lot you can do with diet and other lifestyle approaches. Though this site is mostly about managing my physical health that way, I blog some about managing mental stuff that way here: http://miceats.blogspot.com/

I am posting this here in hopes of making it available to people reading comments here who wish they had alternatives to medication, but just do not know how to make that work. It isn't guaranteed to work, but it's a place to start getting more informed.

Re: A river of lost souls runs through western Colorado

#67

I'm just going to throw this idea out - although I have no evidence either way, but: is there something in the water? Durango's water supply is the Animas, which is downriver from Silverton, and many old, abandoned mines and basically SuperFund sites (even though there's pressure to not call them that - or get that Federal $$$ to fix the problem, for fear of tourist dollars leaving). Are there known correlations betw…

The city of Durango does not normally pull its water supply from the Animas River but rather the Florida River which is not known for a large heavy metal load. Animas river water is used as a backup supply.

Re: A river of lost souls runs through western Colorado

#68
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Much of that pushback is because that same advice can be twisted into a sort of "just will the depression away" suggestion that's kind of tone deaf and insulting to people suffering from depression. It's not uncommon for people to say exactly that, as if it's little more than a light switch that needs to be flicked off. And most of the time, those sorts of comments are pretty patronizing, along the lines of "just man…

The other problem with exercise as treatment for depression is that it's pushed as nearly magical cure that will strongly help everyone with depression. It'd be easier to take the advice if it was pushed as "it helps some people a lot. It might help you, if only a bit".

Cardio exercise is like natural acupuncture for your internal organs. When you understand it that way, it becomes one of the go-to therapies.

Re: A river of lost souls runs through western Colorado

#69

“It’s really hard to withdraw from antidepressants,” said New York psychiatrist and pharmacology expert Julie Holland. In some cases, “people feel like cold water is running down their spine. They can feel their brain sloshing around, or electric zaps in their head.” Dang. If it's true as claimed that medications only help half the time, this seems like a strong encouragement to try things like exercise, yoga, and li…

May I note there is one drug that is relatively safe from addiction and unhealthy side-effects, and it is good that since last Tuesday, it is becoming legal in more places.

Re: A river of lost souls runs through western Colorado

#70

“It’s really hard to withdraw from antidepressants,” said New York psychiatrist and pharmacology expert Julie Holland. In some cases, “people feel like cold water is running down their spine. They can feel their brain sloshing around, or electric zaps in their head.” Dang. If it's true as claimed that medications only help half the time, this seems like a strong encouragement to try things like exercise, yoga, and li…

I tried a low-dose of anti-depressants for a year while I was going through a rough patch. They helped quite a bit but the withdrawal symptoms -- especially the brain zaps -- were quite unpleasant.
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