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A river of lost souls runs through western Colorado

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Re: A river of lost souls runs through western Colorado

#31
post #11
post #7

Depression is not caused by a deficiency of medications, but by a deficiency of hope, so medications cannot cure it.

Depression is a label for a wide range of complex illnesses. I am sure that what you say is true for some people, but in some cases it simply isn't. I've got friends who have been helped by medications, and I've got friends who have tried medication and it didn't help. One thing that is counter productive is to assert that these medications don't work ever, because they do appear to be extremely effective in some cas…

> Depression is a label for a wide range of complex illnesses

Depression is closer to a symptom than an illness.

Re: A river of lost souls runs through western Colorado

#32
post #16
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depression is a label for a wide range of complex illnesses. I am sure that what you say is true for some people, but in some cases it simply isn't. I've got friends who have been helped by medications, and I've got friends who have tried medication and it didn't help. One thing that is counter productive is to assert that these medications don't work ever, because they do appear to be extremely effective in some cas…

You aren't responding to what I actually said. I didn't say medications doesn't help some people. I didn't say medications don't help ever. I did say that medications can't cure depression.

It works around half the time. So, yea it can cure depression though it does not cure everyone of depression.

It's kind of like rebooting a computer, it does not always work and sometimes it makes things worse. But, comparing the cost vs benefit it's generally worth trying.

Re: A river of lost souls runs through western Colorado

#33
“It’s really hard to withdraw from antidepressants,” said New York psychiatrist and pharmacology expert Julie Holland. In some cases, “people feel like cold water is running down their spine. They can feel their brain sloshing around, or electric zaps in their head.”

Dang.

If it's true as claimed that medications only help half the time, this seems like a strong encouragement to try things like exercise, yoga, and lifestyle changes before going the medication route.

Unless you're so depressed you honestly can't make those changes... as commenters have mentioned, sometimes medications are absolutely helpful, needed, and life-saving. I've heard of cases where being on a medication just for a short time helped people break out of a rut.

If you're getting a prescription, it seems worthwhile to ask docs for options that are less problematic to get off of.

Re: A river of lost souls runs through western Colorado

#34
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Risk of death by suicide is much higher in that group of women than it is in younger women. Read the fucking CDC numbers.

One suspects GP was pointing out that late-middle-age men die by suicide more often than late-middle-age women .

...but women in that age group have more suicidal thoughts, and have more suicidal behaviour (planning, preparation), and have more suicide attempts than men.

If women switch to more lethal methods - which is what this article says is happening - they'll soon overtake men in numbers of deaths, especially in this age group.

Re: A river of lost souls runs through western Colorado

#35
The title is cute, but I guess it's good to get people talking about mental illness.

I think we all know the reason Americans are so misserable.

We are brought up thinking we can do anything, if we work hard enough.

Most of us were brought up by parents who lived in an era where that was more true.

The economy is terrible. (Sorry folks, but just last month the unemployment figure that calculates the number of people who can work, but just stopped looking for working doubled from a year ago for the same month. We all know people who stay at home, or are isolated. Just kinda getting by?)

Don't get me started on Globalism. That is the one reason he was elected. We all knew something wasen't right, but he was the first public person to yell it.

Media, and even societal norms(family expectations) keep telling us to "get it together".

Turn on any t.v. show and it's about financial success, or looks.

Men are just expected to make money. Women have the added burden of making it gracefully; making it while still looking great. Sorry women, I have seen how you judge other women. For the most part you can be nasty. My ex was attractive, and very naturally thin. She always had one woman at work who gave her a hard time. And they way men objectify women is just wrong. It's become so common place, it seems like it's acceptable? She pretty, so she a good person? I don't get it.

Media never lets up on being beautiful, and desirable. We are living in a superficial era. It's been that way for awhile, but it's just gotten worse.

What's the first question the average Dinkleberry asks someone when they meet, "What do you do?". It's the American equalevent of saying hello. What--do--you--do? I didn't like it 20 years ago when it was basically yelled in a bar, but now it's everwhere. Personally, I don't judge a person on WTD. Got a little off track.

Veterans come home from duty, and expect a decent job. These jobs don't exist, or are hard to obtain. Some have understanding families. Some actually get some soul crushing help from "entitlement programs". (Before you say anything--apply for Food Stamps, medi-cal(yes, I know veterans administration "takes care" of them), or section 8 housing. It's a ego smashing experience.)

I don't want to let up on the American expectation problem:

Men: In good shape. Financially independent. A promising job, or potential to obtain a promising job. Kida handsome.

Women: Kinda the same, but more emphasis is put on appearance.

Plus--both are are just expected to be good all knowing parents.

O.k.-- Since we are all expected to be some '50's version of success, we work hard. Some spend a lot of time in school and find success. Some get lucky. Some are born into it.

Many people are just having a hard time. Many people are having a very hard time--on so many levels.

Many people have a mental illness pop up. We rely on Psychologists, and Medical Doctors to help.

They, for the most part, have failed spectacularly.

Psychiatrits were duped into beliving these drugs work 50% of the time. Actually, every Psychiatrist I have listen too told me around 2/3's of the time. The latest drug I looked in was 62% over placebo. I belive that was Abilify. The placebo number is always high in these dubious studies.

Personally, as someone who has been on at least 10 different drugs--(all paid for out of pocket); I along with a researcher named Irvin Kirsch belive most of these drugs are worthless.

I did find certain, potentially addictive drugs, like clonezepam, and bupenorpine, helpful, but they have their problems. If I had a do over, I don't think I would have ever walked into a Psychologists/Psychiatrists office, but you have to do it. You need to find out for yourself. They seem to help a lot of my friends.

I'm not qualified to comment on pharmacology.

When I see people turning to street drugs to alleviate the misery; I kinda understand why. To me, it's never been worth the risks though. I have never felt that bad.

I don't have any remedies--other than to buck the societal norms. Be more understanding?

I do know we need to show understanding to those in pain. (physical & mental) We need to be more sympathetic. That whole, "walk a mile in a man's shoes." We need to lighten up. No one has a perfect life. We need to demand change in our social programs. We need to need to do something radical. Yesterday!

(The FDA just sent out guidelines to every doctor in the United States concerning prescription guidelines of opiate based drugs. What I think the FDA missed was the core problem people become dependent on these drugs to begin with. They have misserable lives, and the drugs alleviate the missery for a few months. I have seen about 9 months of relief, and then a lifetime of trying to get off them. So yes, we need to curtail their use, but we can't let people in pain just suffer. It's a balancing act. I don't believe cancer should be the marker of wether someone is prescribed these addictive drugs.). Again, a bit off base.

I'm tired of the huge number of suicides, and tired of just seeing more homeless monthly. I'm tired of seeing people in pain. I'm tired of my life. Just dissalusioned. This is not the greatest country anymore, on a lot of levels.

Re: A river of lost souls runs through western Colorado

#37
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One suspects GP was pointing out that late-middle-age men die by suicide more often than late-middle-age women .

...but women in that age group have more suicidal thoughts, and have more suicidal behaviour (planning, preparation), and have more suicide attempts than men. If women switch to more lethal methods - which is what this article says is happening - they'll soon overtake men in numbers of deaths, especially in this age group.

It really would be news, if any cohort of women had a higher suicide rate than the same cohort of men. That isn't the case, however, and men's rates are ticking up just like women's. TFA offered no evidence for the "more lethal methods" claim.

Re: A river of lost souls runs through western Colorado

#38
post #7

Depression is not caused by a deficiency of medications, but by a deficiency of hope, so medications cannot cure it.

I have excessive hope, and that is one of the many causes of my depression. Another cause is apparently a chemical imbalance in my head, which certain drugs have helped with.

How would you suggest I go about curing my hope problem? I have too much of it. It's a double-edged sword in that it keeps me down, but it is also the only thing that stops me from 'pulling the trigger'.

Re: A river of lost souls runs through western Colorado

#39

“It’s really hard to withdraw from antidepressants,” said New York psychiatrist and pharmacology expert Julie Holland. In some cases, “people feel like cold water is running down their spine. They can feel their brain sloshing around, or electric zaps in their head.” Dang. If it's true as claimed that medications only help half the time, this seems like a strong encouragement to try things like exercise, yoga, and li…

It can be chicken and egg. I imagine that for many personal lifestyle changes are more difficult than popping a pill. Once they start to feel the benefits of medication then doing things out of the norm may come easier. In my own anecdote, it was over the counter stuff like St John's Wort and valerian that helped me do the life change stuff. Also, no one lives in a vacuum. If your husband/wife and kids are all used to you not doing things like yoga, exercise, and whatever else they may subtly make comments or behaviors that make lifestyle change difficult to near impossible.
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