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U.S. judge rejects World Chess bid to block websites from airing moves

reuters.com

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Re: U.S. judge rejects World Chess bid to block websites from airing moves

#101

Post by semi-extrinsic »

throwaway_yy2Di wrote: post #74

Apropos, to anyone who wants to watch the live moves, with expert commentary, they are here (this is the defendant from the Reuters story): https://chess24.com/en/read/news/chess24-win-moscow-case-ann... https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCkTCNuQ2mGfW6-SpHpaze_g (direct link to livestream) If you're looking for live computer engine lines, Steinar Gunderson offers that here, with 38 cores running Stockfish: http://analy…

Regarding "38 cores": can anyone comment on whether that's sufficient to perfectly analyse the game in near-real-time, or is it just good enough to provide interesting analysis? I.e. would Stockfish running on 38 cores be competitive with / better than World Championship players?

Re: U.S. judge rejects World Chess bid to block websites from airing moves

#102

Post by lordnacho »

So consider this near-future scenario:

You have a soccer match in which a lot of fans show up with cameras. Either like a Go-Pro or just their phones, or like Google Glasses.

From the many fan cams, you can reconstruct the state of the match. From the FIFA video games, or from image analysis, you have all the player likenesses.

So then someone could "watch" the game from any vantage point, using just the "facts" of the game, without doing an actual re-broadcast of the game.

What then?

Re: U.S. judge rejects World Chess bid to block websites from airing moves

#103

Post by valleyer »

matt4077 wrote: post #97
greglindahl wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, I turned on my TV 1 minute after that was displayed. This issue is called "contract formation", and any HN reader who's shipped licensed software or had a website with terms of service should be aware that showing something that a user may or may not have seen is the worst possible way to try to form a contract. That's why creating an account on almost all websites has a checkbox that the user has to check, wi…

I'd prefer to make a more forceful case that there are limits to contracts, and not to rely on the technicality of people saw the note, or if "a meeting of minds" actually happened. What if the note is also in the actual contract that has my signature? Is the content of such contracts limited in any way? I mean – it must be. I can easily get any number of people to sign contracts that include a right for me to their…

Yup, I think you're looking for: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unconscionability

Re: U.S. judge rejects World Chess bid to block websites from airing moves

#104

Post by egeozcan »

lordnacho wrote: post #102

So consider this near-future scenario: You have a soccer match in which a lot of fans show up with cameras. Either like a Go-Pro or just their phones, or like Google Glasses. From the many fan cams, you can reconstruct the state of the match. From the FIFA video games, or from image analysis, you have all the player likenesses. So then someone could "watch" the game from any vantage point, using just the "facts" of t…

I'm not sure why this is down-voted. This what came to my mind first as well. I'm not a lawyer, so, maybe there is something fundamental that is wrong with the argument, but it would be nice if someone just explained instead of down-voting.

Re: U.S. judge rejects World Chess bid to block websites from airing moves

#105

Post by trontron »

semi-extrinsic wrote: post #101
throwaway_yy2Di wrote: post #74

Apropos, to anyone who wants to watch the live moves, with expert commentary, they are here (this is the defendant from the Reuters story): https://chess24.com/en/read/news/chess24-win-moscow-case-ann... https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCkTCNuQ2mGfW6-SpHpaze_g (direct link to livestream) If you're looking for live computer engine lines, Steinar Gunderson offers that here, with 38 cores running Stockfish: http://analy…

Regarding "38 cores": can anyone comment on whether that's sufficient to perfectly analyse the game in near-real-time, or is it just good enough to provide interesting analysis? I.e. would Stockfish running on 38 cores be competitive with / better than World Championship players?

modern chess programs are vastly superior to human players, regardless of one or 38 cores. stockfish has a elo rating of ~3350 (probably a little higher when running on 38 cores, not sure). carlsen has 2850. that corresponds with a 95% winning probability per game (or to be more precise: stockfish is expected to win 95% of all possible points over several chess matches)

it's hard to say if that's close to "perfect analysis", because we don't know what a perfect game will look like (chess is not a solved game). but compared to human level, one could say it's close to perfect.

Re: U.S. judge rejects World Chess bid to block websites from airing moves

#106

Post by gpvos »

Symbiote wrote: post #89
MarkMc wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least in UK, I think that example is better classed as 'database right'

The UK is unusual in having database rights, most countries don't respect them to that extent.

All EU countries have it.

Re: U.S. judge rejects World Chess bid to block websites from airing moves

#107

Post by sweetjesus »

CJKinni wrote: post #53

A lot of the comments here on copyright seem to be looking for answers to distinguish this from other copyright issues. Rather than summing up every copyright argument for or against, I thought I'd link to a fairly relevant case: Feist. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feist_Publications,_Inc.,_v._R... . Feist is a case where a phone book company stole the data in a phone book, and began reselling it. It deals with publ…

They stole the data!? What did the phone company do when it no longer had the data for their phone books?! ooooh, you mean they made a copy which the court ruled was ok to do.

Your post is good (but your link is broken, please go steal a better copypaste) and informative, but the point I'm making is that it's easier for people learning about this to see the underlying issues that courts grapple with if we stick to less loaded terms.

Re: U.S. judge rejects World Chess bid to block websites from airing moves

#108

Post by Scarblac »

semi-extrinsic wrote: post #101
throwaway_yy2Di wrote: post #74

Apropos, to anyone who wants to watch the live moves, with expert commentary, they are here (this is the defendant from the Reuters story): https://chess24.com/en/read/news/chess24-win-moscow-case-ann... https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCkTCNuQ2mGfW6-SpHpaze_g (direct link to livestream) If you're looking for live computer engine lines, Steinar Gunderson offers that here, with 38 cores running Stockfish: http://analy…

Regarding "38 cores": can anyone comment on whether that's sufficient to perfectly analyse the game in near-real-time, or is it just good enough to provide interesting analysis? I.e. would Stockfish running on 38 cores be competitive with / better than World Championship players?

Even mobile phones have been at World Championship level for years, but there's no idea to know how close to perfection we are. Top computers still lose games to other top computers.

Re: U.S. judge rejects World Chess bid to block websites from airing moves

#109

Post by Scarblac »

lordnacho wrote: post #102

So consider this near-future scenario: You have a soccer match in which a lot of fans show up with cameras. Either like a Go-Pro or just their phones, or like Google Glasses. From the many fan cams, you can reconstruct the state of the match. From the FIFA video games, or from image analysis, you have all the player likenesses. So then someone could "watch" the game from any vantage point, using just the "facts" of t…

Seems to me that that is allowed (if you are allowed to bring cameras into the stadium).

Re: U.S. judge rejects World Chess bid to block websites from airing moves

#110

Post by Lordarminius »

debt wrote: post #96

fascinating. stats.com charges like $80k per season per sport or something like that for access to their live game data api. world chess should take this all the way, airing the moves for free is undercutting their business model. seems like it shouldn't be legal considering chess is a sport.

Many folks here dont seem to understand this or agree.
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