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Why Mark Suster is wrong about not hiring job hoppers

pauldix.net

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Re: Why Mark Suster is wrong about not hiring job hoppers

#21

Post by evo_9 »

gte910h wrote: post #12
evo_9 wrote: post #5

Nice counterpoint article. The thing not mentioned in either posting - what about guys like me that take/prefer contract work? When you are an indie developer trying to go your own way you inevetible take a lot of of short-term contract work to keep yourself floating.

You're scary and dangerous to bigger companies. They know you know how to leave and survive at any time, and expect you to get tired of the crazy schedules, overtime, and all that at any time. (At least I've known managers who thought that about your type).

Yep - exactly.

Probably why I'm so startup oriented. Of my fulltime jobs most are startups. Just prefer if i'm going to commit then I'd rather comit to a company I can have the greatest impact at and where the risks/rewards are highest. I'm 'built' for startups, just how my psyche works.

Re: Why Mark Suster is wrong about not hiring job hoppers

#22

Post by hxa7241 »

Salary is priced by the market, and that requires regular testing. Saying you don't want to hire regular job-changers is saying you don't want a functioning market. That, of course, is just what one would expect from companies who don't want to pay people what they are worth. Talk of 'loyalty' is effectively propaganda.

Re: Why Mark Suster is wrong about not hiring job hoppers

#23

Post by asimjalis »

rhl wrote: post #19
ihunter wrote: post #9

I think the point of both sides of the argument is this: Don't look for a job, go start your own damn company.

Or rather 'make something people want' ;)

Or rather 'make something you wish someone else would make for you' :)

Re: Why Mark Suster is wrong about not hiring job hoppers

#24

Post by ulrich »

As much as I understand the developers point of view on this, it is different as an entrepreneur. For a startup it is vital to not have half of your companys knowledge walk out the door. This article just says that there are valid reasons why job hoppers can be good employees. Mark Suster doesn't say that you should never change your job, nor does he deny young people to have some more tries for orienatation.

Re: Why Mark Suster is wrong about not hiring job hoppers

#26

Post by ulrich »

kanwisher wrote: post #10
nickpinkston wrote: post #2

It seems like Paul is only looking at one side of the table: the one to be hired. Certainty, we're all able to switch to better opportunities, but the long term signaling effect says you're not going to be their in tough times. Persistence is key in startups, so I can see why he'd be anxious - as would I.

I think loyalty is something earned. I think we should model jobs more like relationships, value has to be given on each side of the equation. If your not treating the girl well, she leaves. You don't go in saying, baby if you date me you have to be here for the next 2 years even if I start beating you. disclaimer I'm a Job hopper ;)

But a girl who has been changing boyfriends like her clothes in the past is more likely to do so in the future. Maybe that's because she doesn't fullfill her side of the equation in general.

Re: Why Mark Suster is wrong about not hiring job hoppers

#27

Post by cedsav »

ihunter wrote: post #9

I think the point of both sides of the argument is this: Don't look for a job, go start your own damn company.

and unless you plan on working alone, you'll have to hire people. You can't hire people the same way you talk yourself into entrepreneurship. They're not going to be co-founders, they won't have a great upside, they're going to be paid a salary to do a job for you. Figuring out how to hire the right people is probably harder than anything else I've done.

Re: Why Mark Suster is wrong about not hiring job hoppers

#28

Post by 0wned »

ulrich wrote: post #24

As much as I understand the developers point of view on this, it is different as an entrepreneur. For a startup it is vital to not have half of your companys knowledge walk out the door. This article just says that there are valid reasons why job hoppers can be good employees. Mark Suster doesn't say that you should never change your job, nor does he deny young people to have some more tries for orienatation.

Most who are fairly paid, valued and treated as human beings won't "walk out". If they like the area and have friends and family close by and they are respected by the company, they will stay.

Disrespect them (low pay, no pay raises, no down time, 80 hour weeks all the time, uncertain/unstable company, etc) and they will leave.

Re: Why Mark Suster is wrong about not hiring job hoppers

#29

Post by rikthevik »

hxa7241 wrote: post #22

Salary is priced by the market, and that requires regular testing. Saying you don't want to hire regular job-changers is saying you don't want a functioning market. That, of course, is just what one would expect from companies who don't want to pay people what they are worth. Talk of 'loyalty' is effectively propaganda.

I've been asked for loyalty from companies many more times than I've ever been shown any. It's pretty rare that a company really sticks by their employees.

For the younger generations, after watching their parents work 20+ years at the same organization and receive a cheap watch, they have no illusions about who will be providing the loyalty and who will be receiving it.

Re: Why Mark Suster is wrong about not hiring job hoppers

#30

Post by jey »

rikthevik wrote: post #29
hxa7241 wrote: post #22

Salary is priced by the market, and that requires regular testing. Saying you don't want to hire regular job-changers is saying you don't want a functioning market. That, of course, is just what one would expect from companies who don't want to pay people what they are worth. Talk of 'loyalty' is effectively propaganda.

I've been asked for loyalty from companies many more times than I've ever been shown any. It's pretty rare that a company really sticks by their employees. For the younger generations, after watching their parents work 20+ years at the same organization and receive a cheap watch, they have no illusions about who will be providing the loyalty and who will be receiving it.

> work 20+ years at the same organization and receive a cheap watch

Or worse, a pink slip.

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