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China’s ‘Artificial Sun’ achieves fusion breakthrough

en.people.cn

101–110 of 235 posts

Re: China’s ‘Artificial Sun’ achieves fusion breakthrough

#101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For what it's worth, I'm in France and it's common knowledge here that China invented gunpowder. I don't think I've ever heard someone saying Europe did.

But Europe was the first to do CANNONS on a large scale...

Oh, yeah. Now you're mentioning it, "China invented gunpowder" is often followed by "but they used it only for fireworks".

Re: China’s ‘Artificial Sun’ achieves fusion breakthrough

#102
post #92

I would love to see a huge effort towards fusion, on the same (or even greater) scale as the Manhattan project or the Apollo program. I had been disappointed in the way that fusion always seemed to be 30 years away no matter how many years went past, but I just assumed that that was because the science was hard and just the way it had to be. https://i.imgur.com/sjH5r.jpg https://www.21stcenturysciencetech.com/Article…

This might sound a bit like a buzz-kill, but I don't think fusion power is necessarily competitively cheap. I think it will be comparable to nuclear power with a ~ 10 times higher capital investment to build a fusion-plant. Already now solar is said to be cheaper then nuclear. But nevertheless humanity should explore fusion since it is more or less the only significant power source not (indrectly) depending on the su…

The very high cost of fission has a lot to do with how nasty, awkward, long-lasting and expensive the fuel and waste are. We really won't know until we try building a power plant.

Re: China’s ‘Artificial Sun’ achieves fusion breakthrough

#103

I would love to see a huge effort towards fusion, on the same (or even greater) scale as the Manhattan project or the Apollo program. I had been disappointed in the way that fusion always seemed to be 30 years away no matter how many years went past, but I just assumed that that was because the science was hard and just the way it had to be. https://i.imgur.com/sjH5r.jpg https://www.21stcenturysciencetech.com/Article…

My Physics of Electrical Power Generation lecturer told us pretty flatly that we should not expect or bank on fusion power in our lifetimes. He said we should concentrate on renewables (which seems to be the way most countries are going in Europe at least).

This is absolutely sensible at the current level of investment. The question is whether it would remain true with a big infusion of money or not.

Re: China’s ‘Artificial Sun’ achieves fusion breakthrough

#104
post #82

Compared to the stellerator, tokamak is an older design. Germans have sucessfully built and tested the second generation stellerator, Wendelstein 7-X[1]. Now it will run for 32 minutes, where the Tokamak design is targeted for 1000 seconds, or 16 minutes. (Yes, a stellerator is much harder to build, but it's easier to control the plasma with; building one became feasible only after doing finite element analysis optim…

Hold your horses, it hasn't run for 32 minutes yet. If it succeeds in that, I expect we'll all be hearing about it.

This is a big improvement compared to the microseconds once was. So maybe we're getting there.

Edit: removed some stuff that turned out to be fluff once I'd actually read the article. Whoops...

Re: China’s ‘Artificial Sun’ achieves fusion breakthrough

#105
post #4

Anyone remember that really old game Outpost? It ran on Windows 3.1; used a CD recording of The Planets as its soundtrack. That's the first time I've heard of Tokamak reactors. What these are trying to achieve is pretty amazing. I hope one day, one of these reactors will be able to sustain a greater output than input. It has the potential to move the planet into a completely different energy age. Imagine if we could…

Funny, the picture instantly reminded me of the Shinra and its reactors in Final Fantaisy VII :) [1] Regarding Mars, I would love someone who knows to tell us how this would compare to raw sun energy exploitation. Each time I think of solar energy, I can't help but think it's a waste to try to collect it under the atmosphere, given one of its useful properties is precisely to protect us from the sun. My thinking usua…

The biggest problem with setting a solar farm in space is efficient energy transfer [1]. Bezos proposes to build also industrial zones in space, but then the problem is raw material transfer [2]. The easiest thing to do is to reap what you can here on surface of the Earth.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space-based_solar_power

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_manufacturing

Re: China’s ‘Artificial Sun’ achieves fusion breakthrough

#106
post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funny, the picture instantly reminded me of the Shinra and its reactors in Final Fantaisy VII :) [1] Regarding Mars, I would love someone who knows to tell us how this would compare to raw sun energy exploitation. Each time I think of solar energy, I can't help but think it's a waste to try to collect it under the atmosphere, given one of its useful properties is precisely to protect us from the sun. My thinking usua…

The biggest problem with setting a solar farm in space is efficient energy transfer [1]. Bezos proposes to build also industrial zones in space, but then the problem is raw material transfer [2]. The easiest thing to do is to reap what you can here on surface of the Earth. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space-based_solar_power [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_manufacturing

Thanks! This makes me realize that the biggest energy challenge for humanity may not be to produce it, but rather to store it.

Re: China’s ‘Artificial Sun’ achieves fusion breakthrough

#107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But Europe was the first to do CANNONS on a large scale...

Oh, yeah. Now you're mentioning it, "China invented gunpowder" is often followed by "but they used it only for fireworks".

Polish here. We learn in schools that Chinese invented gunpowder - period. Few more things we learn about them and Arabs as well.

Re: China’s ‘Artificial Sun’ achieves fusion breakthrough

#108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We do tend to diminish achievements from Asia historically. They discovered America first (the whole notion of "discovering" first a place where there already are people is absurd), they got printing first, they mastered gunpowder first... and yet most westerners will name Columbus, Gutenberg, and Europe.

For what it's worth, I'm in France and it's common knowledge here that China invented gunpowder. I don't think I've ever heard someone saying Europe did.

Apparently, back in the 19th century people credited Berthold Schwarz [0] with the inventiom of gunpowder. I remember reading Beyond Good and Evil and reading in the preface that "the Germans invented gunpowder" and being rather puzzled, but it turns out that that was considered a fact at the time.

Though I wouldn't be surprised if gunpowder was discovered independently in Europe, or at least partly so because nobody walked out of China with a recipe for it.

[0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berthold_Schwarz

Re: China’s ‘Artificial Sun’ achieves fusion breakthrough

#109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a bit confused by this comment. Are you implying that "an academic culture of scientific honesty" is something the non-Chinese world has but China doesn't? I'll concede it's probably a matter of degree.

Especially on the front of medical trials, a recent Chinese government probe found 80% of data used was falsified [0] [0] http://www.rfa.org/english/news/china/clinical-fakes-0927201...

Sounds like a better track record than Theranos to me.

Re: China’s ‘Artificial Sun’ achieves fusion breakthrough

#110
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This might sound a bit like a buzz-kill, but I don't think fusion power is necessarily competitively cheap. I think it will be comparable to nuclear power with a ~ 10 times higher capital investment to build a fusion-plant. Already now solar is said to be cheaper then nuclear. But nevertheless humanity should explore fusion since it is more or less the only significant power source not (indrectly) depending on the su…

The very high cost of fission has a lot to do with how nasty, awkward, long-lasting and expensive the fuel and waste are. We really won't know until we try building a power plant.

Fusion produces energetic neutrons, and energetic neutrons are a very good way to make things radioactive. So all the popular approaches create waste that is more radioactive than fission waste, and probably comparable in volume.

The only up side is that the decay products have a shorter half life. So the waste will only be a problem for a century or so, instead of for millennia.

This may be better than fission, but it's definitely not clean by any realistic definition of the word.

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