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Why Mark Suster is wrong about not hiring job hoppers

pauldix.net

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Re: Why Mark Suster is wrong about not hiring job hoppers

#11

Post by rhl »

This reminds me of an article I came across, praising execs working with an 'assignment mentality' rather than lifetime-employment seekers: http://hbr.org/2001/07/the-right-way-to-be-fired/ar/1

What's interesting in this debate is that Mark's own experience isn't where he puts his mouth. He spent the first 8 years of his career at Accenture (which screams failed attempt at making partner -- sorry to be harsh), but drastically changed occupations every two years inside the firm (switching from IT to strategy, changing countries etc.).

I really like reading Mark, so I'm afraid of overbearing my point. But his inital blog post sounded like shamelessly getting his cake and eating it too.

He felt that such frequent career changes were the best way to prepare himself to lead a startup someday -- why would the same trait magically become a liability in others? Optimizing against this very behavior in job selection signals a quite detrimental two-tiered mindset -- himself at the helm, and employees who are there to take orders.

This is to some extent the reality of capitalism, but it isn't admirable leadership, nor a good way to generate innovation, and certainly not the best way to inspire people to stick on a sinking ship while the rats drown away. As the OP said - money can't buy you love... :)

Contrast this with Yelp, Aardvark and the second-generation breed of entrepreneurs coming out of the PayPal and Google mafias.

Re: Why Mark Suster is wrong about not hiring job hoppers

#12

Post by gte910h »

evo_9 wrote: post #5

Nice counterpoint article. The thing not mentioned in either posting - what about guys like me that take/prefer contract work? When you are an indie developer trying to go your own way you inevetible take a lot of of short-term contract work to keep yourself floating.

You're scary and dangerous to bigger companies. They know you know how to leave and survive at any time, and expect you to get tired of the crazy schedules, overtime, and all that at any time. (At least I've known managers who thought that about your type).

Re: Why Mark Suster is wrong about not hiring job hoppers

#13

Post by helwr »

Mark is probably right - its hard to manage the entrepreneur types.

There is an interesting treatise called "Exit, Voce and Loyalty" by A.Hirschman that talks about the reasons for withdrawal from a relationship, be it employer-employee, or state-citizen interaction. I think Paul's reasons for 'job hopping' fit into the Exit camp, withdrawing due to either inability to change things or unwillingness to confront the system in a free market with plenty of exit options.

highly recommended: http://www.amazon.com/Exit-Voice-Loyalty-Responses-Organizat...

Re: Why Mark Suster is wrong about not hiring job hoppers

#14

Post by pasbesoin »

nickpinkston wrote: post #2

It seems like Paul is only looking at one side of the table: the one to be hired. Certainty, we're all able to switch to better opportunities, but the long term signaling effect says you're not going to be their in tough times. Persistence is key in startups, so I can see why he'd be anxious - as would I.

A plurality of companies have been signaling that they won't be there for the employee in tough times. Goose, gander?

EDIT: You mention specifically start-ups. Ok. There, however, there is reward presumably commensurate with the risk a participant takes. Also, the work is probably more challenging and interesting. I hold that neither particularly apply to other sectors, speaking generally.

Re: Why Mark Suster is wrong about not hiring job hoppers

#15

Post by mattm »

nickpinkston wrote: post #2

It seems like Paul is only looking at one side of the table: the one to be hired. Certainty, we're all able to switch to better opportunities, but the long term signaling effect says you're not going to be their in tough times. Persistence is key in startups, so I can see why he'd be anxious - as would I.

How tough are we talking about? If the company runs out of money and asks you to work for free for a few months, I wouldn't fault anybody for leaving. As others have said, working for someone is purely a business transaction. If you aren't getting what you want, you are free to go elsewhere.

Re: Why Mark Suster is wrong about not hiring job hoppers

#16

Post by j_baker »

ivenkys wrote: post #3

This is a commercial transaction with all that entails. If you as an employer are any good - you will have the best people wanting to join you and if you are not , then well , it is going to be a revolving door. The best people will always have more offers on the table.

I don't think that's necessarily true. Some of the best programmers are abysmal interviewees. So I would suggest that there are a ton of briliant programmers out there with jobs that are well below their level.

Re: Why Mark Suster is wrong about not hiring job hoppers

#17

Post by strebler »

When I was a more naive manager (and employer), I would have agreed with Suster's arguments.

But the startup world is simply not a "stable" place, for either party. There's always a tradeoff; my most stable/non-hopping friends work for the government doing fairly mind-numbing things. Those aren't the employees your startup is looking for.

Re: Why Mark Suster is wrong about not hiring job hoppers

#18

Post by ccc3 »

Excellent deconstruction of Mark's post. I'd add one point:

I thought that Mark's post was valuable in understanding the perspective of some hiring managers or investors since inevitably a few of those people will be looking at my resume. But I was not convinced that Mark's hiring filter was the correct approach to hiring. As an entrepreneur you're the underdog and need to find ways to do more with less. If all the big name companies are afraid of job hoppers, then you should be looking even harder at job hoppers. Your best chance at finding that diamond-in-the-rough employee is to take a closer look at the applicants that were never really evaluated at other companies because they were "caught by the filter."

Re: Why Mark Suster is wrong about not hiring job hoppers

#20

Post by j_baker »

gte910h wrote: post #12
evo_9 wrote: post #5

Nice counterpoint article. The thing not mentioned in either posting - what about guys like me that take/prefer contract work? When you are an indie developer trying to go your own way you inevetible take a lot of of short-term contract work to keep yourself floating.

You're scary and dangerous to bigger companies. They know you know how to leave and survive at any time, and expect you to get tired of the crazy schedules, overtime, and all that at any time. (At least I've known managers who thought that about your type).

Sadly, my experience is that they're scary to a lot of startups as well. Startups often have one or two former big company types working for them, which may be all that's needed to tip the scales against you.
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