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Grubhub CEO tells pro-Trump employees to resign

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Re: Grubhub CEO tells pro-Trump employees to resign

#21

Post by generic_user »

revx wrote: post #13
tejohnso wrote: post #11

Paragraph 3: "I firmly believe that we must bring together different perspectives...including all genders, races.... ideological preferences ." Paragraph 4: "...I and everyone else here at Grubhub will fight for your dignity and your right to make a better life here in the United States." Paragraph 5: "If you do not agree with this statement then please reply to this email with your resignation because you have no pl…

There's a difference between respecting someone's ideological preference, and discouraging hate speech. I like to think of it like this: your liberties to express ideology end where someone else's human rights begin. I would disagree with firing someone for saying that they liked Trump. I would agree with firing someone for making racist, sexist, or otherwise derogatory comments toward a co-worker. I think that's wha…

> If you do not agree with this statement then please reply to this email with your resignation because you have no place here.

That is clearly stating that if you have an ideological disagreement hand in your resignation. Contradicting the claim he supports 'ideological inclusion and tolerance' in the preceding paragraph.

Nowhere in the text does the term 'hate speech' come up. He does make a reference to demeaning behaviour. That could easily mean ideological disagreement. If you find someones views on H1B visas demeaning they should hand in there resignation.

Also he states,

> we do not tolerate hateful attitudes on our team.

Again he states there is no tolerance for attitudes he may disagree with. Attitudes are simply ideas informed by ideology. What constitutes a hateful attitude could be any political disagreement of principle. Including voting for Trump.

This seems like a fairly pointed address to Trump voters that they should hand in there resignation.

Re: Grubhub CEO tells pro-Trump employees to resign

#22

Post by MaysonL »

fdsaaf wrote: post #16
revx wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a difference between respecting someone's ideological preference, and discouraging hate speech. I like to think of it like this: your liberties to express ideology end where someone else's human rights begin. I would disagree with firing someone for saying that they liked Trump. I would agree with firing someone for making racist, sexist, or otherwise derogatory comments toward a co-worker. I think that's wha…

> There's a difference between respecting someone's ideological preference, and discouraging hate speech No there is not. "Hate speech" is what liberals call inconvenient conservative speech. Approving all speech except "hate speech" is just declaring that you will censor speech you find disagreeable. The only legitimate speech restrictions are viewpoint-neutral no matter what the viewpoint.

"You're a dirty monkey and should go back to Africa" is inconvenient conservative speech? You'll have a difficult time defending that statement.

Re: Grubhub CEO tells pro-Trump employees to resign

#23

Post by MaysonL »

randomname2 wrote: post #18

Analysis by Ken White: Mini-lawsplainer: maybe @Grubhub isn't safe with that "resign if you support Trump's politics" email after all. /1 /2 Turns out DC is one of a few jurisdictions with a no-firing-based-on-political-affiliation law. Sec. 2-1401.11 beta.code.dccouncil.us/dc/council/cod… /3 In fact, under 1-1401.11(4)(B) it's specifically illegal to publish a "preference, limitation, specification, or distinction"…

The email isn't "resign if you support Trump's politics" it's "resign if you act like Trump (in his more distasteful moments) during office hours"

Re: Grubhub CEO tells pro-Trump employees to resign

#24

Post by generic_user »

MaysonL wrote: post #22
fdsaaf wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There's a difference between respecting someone's ideological preference, and discouraging hate speech No there is not. "Hate speech" is what liberals call inconvenient conservative speech. Approving all speech except "hate speech" is just declaring that you will censor speech you find disagreeable. The only legitimate speech restrictions are viewpoint-neutral no matter what the viewpoint.

"You're a dirty monkey and should go back to Africa" is inconvenient conservative speech? You'll have a difficult time defending that statement.

We are discussing these terms in a specific context of this email. Wild straw men arguments do not contribute to the discussion. Unless you can find someone saying,

> You're a dirty monkey and should go back to Africa

I would refrain from such bombast.

Re: Grubhub CEO tells pro-Trump employees to resign

#25

Post by fdsaaf »

MaysonL wrote: post #22
fdsaaf wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There's a difference between respecting someone's ideological preference, and discouraging hate speech No there is not. "Hate speech" is what liberals call inconvenient conservative speech. Approving all speech except "hate speech" is just declaring that you will censor speech you find disagreeable. The only legitimate speech restrictions are viewpoint-neutral no matter what the viewpoint.

"You're a dirty monkey and should go back to Africa" is inconvenient conservative speech? You'll have a difficult time defending that statement.

That statement is absolutely protected speech.

Re: Grubhub CEO tells pro-Trump employees to resign

#27

Post by sacradix »

seastonATccs wrote: post #15

Title is wrong. He defined several actions that Trump demonstrated as grounds for immediate termination. He informed all his employees that if they do not follow company hr policies they should resign.

You could charitably interpret it that way. But he also did write these words:

Further I absolutely reject the nationalist, anti-immigrant and hateful politics of Donald Trump and will work to shield our community from this movement as best as I can. ... If you do not agree with this statement then please reply to this email with your resignation because you have no place here.

If you identify as a nationalist or favor immigration restrictions, then you're not in agreement with his statement and are told to resign.

Re: Grubhub CEO tells pro-Trump employees to resign

#28

Post by RCortex »

tejohnso wrote: post #11

Paragraph 3: "I firmly believe that we must bring together different perspectives...including all genders, races.... ideological preferences ." Paragraph 4: "...I and everyone else here at Grubhub will fight for your dignity and your right to make a better life here in the United States." Paragraph 5: "If you do not agree with this statement then please reply to this email with your resignation because you have no pl…

How could it be? You can't foster or promote tolerance by supporting intolerance.

Re: Grubhub CEO tells pro-Trump employees to resign

#29

Post by revx »

fdsaaf wrote: post #25
MaysonL wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"You're a dirty monkey and should go back to Africa" is inconvenient conservative speech? You'll have a difficult time defending that statement.

That statement is absolutely protected speech.

I think you're mistaking the purpose of the 1st amendment. Racist comments are protected speech in that the United States Government cannot arrest/imprison/etc. you for that kind of speech.

Freedom of speech does not mean freedom of repercussions for your speech. New York is an at-will state, meaning there is no legal problem with this email. There is no protection for people getting fired for hate speech, just like there is no legal protection for people boycotting or refusing to work for companies that they disagree with.

Re: Grubhub CEO tells pro-Trump employees to resign

#30

Post by revx »

sacradix wrote: post #27
seastonATccs wrote: post #15

Title is wrong. He defined several actions that Trump demonstrated as grounds for immediate termination. He informed all his employees that if they do not follow company hr policies they should resign.

You could charitably interpret it that way. But he also did write these words: Further I absolutely reject the nationalist, anti-immigrant and hateful politics of Donald Trump and will work to shield our community from this movement as best as I can. ... If you do not agree with this statement then please reply to this email with your resignation because you have no place here. If you identify as a nationalist or fav…

I think if you act in a violently nationalist way (harming or harassing someone who is "not American enough"), or taunt legal immigrants because they "look hispanic", "look indian" etc, that is all completely reasonable grounds for firing.

In my opinion, you can identify as nationalist or favor immigration restrictions as long as you don't harm, harass, threaten, etc. someone. And I think this is what the Grubhub CEO is saying (their later statement reinforces this).

This isn't censorship of ideas, it's reinforcing a culture of empathy and goodwill at a company with those values.

Think about it this way: would you enjoy working for a company that did nothing as co-workers made fun of you for your race, disability, country of origin, or sexual orientation?

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