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Warning: 2016 MacBook Pro is not compatible with Linux

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Re: Warning: 2016 MacBook Pro is not compatible with Linux

#91

Post by slantyyz »

chadgeidel wrote: post #28
notadoc wrote: post #9

$2800 on a laptop with only 16GB RAM that you're going to run linux on anyway? If you're going to run Ubuntu, why not get a Lenovo for much less and with notably better legitimately "Pro" specs?

Build quality. It's difficult to find a computer that matches the quality of a MacBook for fit and finish, trackpad quality, and battery life. I haven't used the new one, but the 2015 models were among the best hardware on the market - regardless of what OS was installed.

Real question: Is battery life a benefit when you're running an OS other than macOS? Doesn't macOS have optimizations that make it better at battery consumption than other OSes?

Re: Warning: 2016 MacBook Pro is not compatible with Linux

#92

Post by mderazon »

pinkrooftop wrote: post #3

A more accurate description is that Linux isn't compatible with the new Macbook Pro. It's not Apple's job to make their laptop compatible with Linux.

Which sounds more accurate? 1. Windows is not compatible with the new MacBook pro 2. The new MacBook pro is not compatible with Windows ?

Re: Warning: 2016 MacBook Pro is not compatible with Linux

#93

Post by _0w8t »

cookiecaper wrote: post #76
AceJohnny2 wrote: post #44

Macbooks were never good choices to run Linux on, and it's naive to think it would've gotten any easier. Apple's version of EFI is slightly different than the standard. The laptops are filled with custom hardware that you won't find anywhere else. It took Dell months of effort by a dedicated team [1] to get all the features of a subset of Dell XPS13 laptops working under Linux. I'm actually considering buying one as…

Several Linux kernel committers use a MacBook as their primary device. I've run Linux on a MacBook for years at a time and it worked fine. There may be some extra complication involved in getting Linux working well on a MacBook (and typically this is only true for the first several months until drivers are updated and integrated upstream), but it's certainly not a "laughably naive" endeavor. It works fine after some…

Presently one can use MacBook 2015-2016 on Linux only with an external keyboard/mouse. The progress with driver has been made, but it is far from there.

Re: Warning: 2016 MacBook Pro is not compatible with Linux

#94

Post by vinay427 »

voidlogic wrote: post #87
preek wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get your sentiment for the new model. I still run a 15" MBP from mid 13 and couldn't be happier with running Debian on it. Friends had multiple new machines (also Lenovo) in the same time. Some of them actually broke down. All of them have a very dim screen, speakers that I cannot hear and microphones that cannot record. And then there's the touch pad, ... The list goes on. I'm no Apple fan boy, but those Lenovos a…

>I'm no Apple fan boy, but those Lenovos are not IBM Thinkpads anymore. Are you saying the quality is down? I can't agree with that, I have kept buying Thinkpads and my X1 Carbon (2nd gen) is fantastic.

I'm with you there. I'm tired of the assumption that quality has decreased because of a change of branding, possibly enhanced because the new owner is Chinese. My ThinkPad from early 2015 is better built than the older ThinkPads I have used, especially considering how thin and light it is. This shouldn't be surprising because the quality of materials has improved to make for lighter and more durable bodies.

Re: Warning: 2016 MacBook Pro is not compatible with Linux

#95

Post by eth0up »

cookiecaper wrote: post #76
AceJohnny2 wrote: post #44

Macbooks were never good choices to run Linux on, and it's naive to think it would've gotten any easier. Apple's version of EFI is slightly different than the standard. The laptops are filled with custom hardware that you won't find anywhere else. It took Dell months of effort by a dedicated team [1] to get all the features of a subset of Dell XPS13 laptops working under Linux. I'm actually considering buying one as…

Several Linux kernel committers use a MacBook as their primary device. I've run Linux on a MacBook for years at a time and it worked fine. There may be some extra complication involved in getting Linux working well on a MacBook (and typically this is only true for the first several months until drivers are updated and integrated upstream), but it's certainly not a "laughably naive" endeavor. It works fine after some…

Seconding your input. There is nothing laughable about Linux on a Macbook and I hope folks don't have an impression otherwise. I completely formatted the HD on mine and using only Linux and tools within the repos, wangled a very usable system on a new gpt partition. I was a bit naive to expect it would be fun and easy, but it worked after some effort.

Re: Warning: 2016 MacBook Pro is not compatible with Linux

#96

Post by astrodust »

_opc6 wrote: post #33
adiabatty wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple seems preternaturally constrained by engineer time; I can't see why they would devote a scarce resource like that to qualifying drivers for anything older than Windows 10 Anniversary Edition.

They have incredible amount of cash reserves. An investment in Linux drivers would go against their mission of OSX penetration. It has nothing to do with being unable to do it.

You can't just throw money at a problem and it magically gets solved. Adding additional requirements puts strain on your core team, there's no way around it.

If you could 100% compartmentalize this, have people working on it independently, maybe you could minimize impact, but how can you justify that spending?

They know the open-source community is capable of working to fix problems like this.

Re: Warning: 2016 MacBook Pro is not compatible with Linux

#97

Post by mjg59 »

The three primary issues here are:

1) The input devices are on SPI, not USB. Apple's ACPI tables don't provide the GPIO mappings for these things via the standard mechanisms, so the chipset driver won't bind. You then still need another driver for the SPI controller, and there's an out of tree one at https://github.com/cb22/macbook12-spi-driver/ . Longer term, the kernel needs to be able to parse Apple's ACPI tables and that driver needs merging.

2) Apple's NVME hardware uses the wrong PCI device class, possibly because it's not entirely NVME compatible (trying to read 64 bits of mmio register space in one go will fail, for instance). Linux has a specific entry for the older Apple NVME devices, and that may need to be broadened.

3) Having source ID checking enabled when doing IRQ remapping results in the system hanging on boot. It's unclear what the underlying problem is.

Windows works fine because Apple provide drivers for (1) and (2). (3) is unclear - Windows may be setting up interrupt remapping differently, or it may never enable source ID verification. These issues are far from unusual when dealing with Apple hardware ((1) was true for the new Macbook, (2) has been true since Apple introduced NVME, (3) is the kind of weirdness that we've seen on Apple hardware ever since they went Intel), and this particular set of breakage is unsurprising.

I spend some time while I was at Red Hat trying to keep Apple hardware working (https://mjg59.dreamwidth.org/12037.html is an example of what we had to do), but I don't know that anybody's really working terribly hard on it these days.

Re: Warning: 2016 MacBook Pro is not compatible with Linux

#98

Post by teto-plz »

pinkrooftop wrote: post #3

A more accurate description is that Linux isn't compatible with the new Macbook Pro. It's not Apple's job to make their laptop compatible with Linux.

Two things being compatible with each other is a symmetric relation, so the order doesn't matter.

Re: Warning: 2016 MacBook Pro is not compatible with Linux

#99

Post by voltagex_ »

notadoc wrote: post #74
diamondo25 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't know this issue happened on the 2015 model as well... I've got the mid 2014 model and it has the exact same issue. They call it staingate [0], and it seems that they've replaced screens with the issue (for free). I have yet to request that, however... [0] http://www.staingate.org/

I was very disappointed to find it on a 2015 model as well. The "staingate" name is odd, it's definitely not staining, the laminate just wipes right off with little effort.

Is there any chance of getting this replaced by the Apple Store? I think I was quoted $900AUD.

Re: Warning: 2016 MacBook Pro is not compatible with Linux

#100

Post by lorenzhs »

chadgeidel wrote: post #28
notadoc wrote: post #9

$2800 on a laptop with only 16GB RAM that you're going to run linux on anyway? If you're going to run Ubuntu, why not get a Lenovo for much less and with notably better legitimately "Pro" specs?

Build quality. It's difficult to find a computer that matches the quality of a MacBook for fit and finish, trackpad quality, and battery life. I haven't used the new one, but the 2015 models were among the best hardware on the market - regardless of what OS was installed.

I really like ThinkPads. People keep claiming that build quality has gotten worse, but that doesn't match up with my impression and experience. The T and X series laptops are very well built. The screens aren't as nice as Apple's, and I can't comment on the touchpads (I exclusively use the TrackPoint), but overall they're great machines (and cheap, compared to MacBooks).
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