Except that a software engineer has a pretty set salary ceiling and it is much easier to get a side job at night then get a comparable salary raise. The temptation to perform extra work is just too big.
Work/Life Balance Will Make You a Better Software Engineer
51–60 of 111 posts
Re: Work/Life Balance Will Make You a Better Software Engineer
#52Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's comments like this that really make me sad about the state of labor solidarity among tech professionals. Like, please, stop torpedoing our negotiation position, especially on a public forum that many technical employers and managers read. On the object level, I have a suspicion that being productive past 40 hr/wk or so has reverse causation for me. It's bad for me to work over 40 hours a week, so that magically…
Do you realize that you're basically saying: "shut up with your facts, we've got a way of [easy hipster] living to protect"?
You sound like you're either management or the kind of person who's first to cross picket lines.
Anyhow, take out the vitriol and your statement is basically "do you realize that you're supporting the quality of life of software developers?" Yes. Yes I am. I'm a software developer and this stuff is important. I'm opposed to moving towards a negotiated position that gives employers more at the expense of software developers. These are not unreasonable positions to hold.
editing to add in a quote from parent downthread:
>yes, I was in some mid-management level
Keep that in mind as you read comments.
Re: Work/Life Balance Will Make You a Better Software Engineer
#53Earlier quoted context omitted.
Do you realize that you're basically saying: "shut up with your facts, we've got a way of [easy hipster] living to protect"?
You sound like you're either management or the kind of person who's first to cross picket lines. Anyhow, take out the vitriol and your statement is basically "do you realize that you're supporting the quality of life of software developers?" Yes. Yes I am. I'm a software developer and this stuff is important. I'm opposed to moving towards a negotiated position that gives employers more at the expense of software deve…
Responding with an ad hominem attack, nice.
You see your position as supporting software developers, which is reasonable. It's not reasonable to expect other software developers to refuse to raise rational points of inquiry that you've based your argument on because it may result in weakening your argument on the merits. It demonstrates that you care more about winning than about the truth. As a result, you're responding to someone who is behaving more rationally than you with an emotional response and personal attacks.
Re: Work/Life Balance Will Make You a Better Software Engineer
#54Earlier quoted context omitted.
You sound like you're either management or the kind of person who's first to cross picket lines. Anyhow, take out the vitriol and your statement is basically "do you realize that you're supporting the quality of life of software developers?" Yes. Yes I am. I'm a software developer and this stuff is important. I'm opposed to moving towards a negotiated position that gives employers more at the expense of software deve…
Responding with an ad hominem attack, nice. You see your position as supporting software developers, which is reasonable. It's not reasonable to expect other software developers to refuse to raise rational points of inquiry that you've based your argument on because it may result in weakening your argument on the merits. It demonstrates that you care more about winning than about the truth. As a result, you're respon…
Thanks, that was a lot more eloquent and expressive than what I would have managed. But, yeah, I meant the same thing.
Re: Work/Life Balance Will Make You a Better Software Engineer
#55Earlier quoted context omitted.
You sound like you're either management or the kind of person who's first to cross picket lines. Anyhow, take out the vitriol and your statement is basically "do you realize that you're supporting the quality of life of software developers?" Yes. Yes I am. I'm a software developer and this stuff is important. I'm opposed to moving towards a negotiated position that gives employers more at the expense of software deve…
Responding with an ad hominem attack, nice. You see your position as supporting software developers, which is reasonable. It's not reasonable to expect other software developers to refuse to raise rational points of inquiry that you've based your argument on because it may result in weakening your argument on the merits. It demonstrates that you care more about winning than about the truth. As a result, you're respon…
This is the sort of bare-bones level of thinking about the consequences of your actions that I expect out of professionals and adults. The lady in the grocery store may be fat, but loudly talking about that true fact is the sort of thing that we teach our children not to do. I'm not expecting us to not discuss these things; I'm expecting us to not discuss them in a way that hurts us as a class. Keep it over the water cooler, or on private mailing lists.
As far as the ad hominem goes - that's the appropriate response to the social status implications of the "easy hipster" comment.
Re: Work/Life Balance Will Make You a Better Software Engineer
#56Earlier quoted context omitted.
Do you realize that you're basically saying: "shut up with your facts, we've got a way of [easy hipster] living to protect"?
You sound like you're either management or the kind of person who's first to cross picket lines. Anyhow, take out the vitriol and your statement is basically "do you realize that you're supporting the quality of life of software developers?" Yes. Yes I am. I'm a software developer and this stuff is important. I'm opposed to moving towards a negotiated position that gives employers more at the expense of software deve…
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Re: Work/Life Balance Will Make You a Better Software Engineer
#57Earlier quoted context omitted.
Do you realize that you're basically saying: "shut up with your facts, we've got a way of [easy hipster] living to protect"?
No, he is saying, you need to pace yourself. Don't burn out in your twenties. Most of you won't make your life better by working 80 hrs/week but you make life worse for a lot of people.
That's indeed something to think of.. but that's not what the poster wrote.
Re: Work/Life Balance Will Make You a Better Software Engineer
#58Earlier quoted context omitted.
You sound like you're either management or the kind of person who's first to cross picket lines. Anyhow, take out the vitriol and your statement is basically "do you realize that you're supporting the quality of life of software developers?" Yes. Yes I am. I'm a software developer and this stuff is important. I'm opposed to moving towards a negotiated position that gives employers more at the expense of software deve…
Responding with an ad hominem attack, nice. You see your position as supporting software developers, which is reasonable. It's not reasonable to expect other software developers to refuse to raise rational points of inquiry that you've based your argument on because it may result in weakening your argument on the merits. It demonstrates that you care more about winning than about the truth. As a result, you're respon…
I'd take issue with your claim that the response by GP was the first emotional or attacking blow - that response was to GGP's "easy hipster life" claim, and the implicit claim therein that GP's call for labor solidarity was spoiled whining rather than, perhaps, a call for skilled workers in an industry to support each other's negotiation positions rather than undercut each other.
> It's not reasonable to expect other software developers to refuse to raise rational points of inquiry that you've based your argument on because it may result in weakening your argument on the merits.
What argument are you claiming is weakened? GP is saying that our overall, industry-wide labor bargaining position is weakened when a subset of us willingly take suboptimal work-hour or payment arrangements - really they're giving the companies and hiring side of the discussions all of the leverage over us while dropping our price floor out from under us.
If that sort of thing continues, it signals to the market that we are not skilled labor, just labor. And then all the software jobs run overseas where they are cheaper, just like manufacturing has done over the last 50 years (and software has already begun to).
Maybe the original comment GP's response to wasn't the right one - but it's the right sentiment in this discussion of whether work-life balance is a good thing. How is that even a question?
Re: Work/Life Balance Will Make You a Better Software Engineer
#59Earlier quoted context omitted.
Responding with an ad hominem attack, nice. You see your position as supporting software developers, which is reasonable. It's not reasonable to expect other software developers to refuse to raise rational points of inquiry that you've based your argument on because it may result in weakening your argument on the merits. It demonstrates that you care more about winning than about the truth. As a result, you're respon…
This is the sort of bare-bones level of thinking about the consequences of your actions that I expect out of professionals and adults. The lady in the grocery store may be fat, but loudly talking about that true fact is the sort of thing that we teach our children not to do. I'm not expecting us to not discuss these things; I'm expecting us to not discuss them in a way that hurts us as a class. Keep it over the water…
Regarding the "easy hipster" part - I exaggerated for effect.
That is the perception people have on SV developers, for right or wrong.
Meanwhile, I'm from Sweden so I'm perhaps just an outside observer to this spectacle.. but at least from my perspective, SV developers are generally speaking overpaid. Well, at least compared to Swedish/European developers. :)
Re: Work/Life Balance Will Make You a Better Software Engineer
#60Earlier quoted context omitted.
Responding with an ad hominem attack, nice. You see your position as supporting software developers, which is reasonable. It's not reasonable to expect other software developers to refuse to raise rational points of inquiry that you've based your argument on because it may result in weakening your argument on the merits. It demonstrates that you care more about winning than about the truth. As a result, you're respon…
This is the sort of bare-bones level of thinking about the consequences of your actions that I expect out of professionals and adults. The lady in the grocery store may be fat, but loudly talking about that true fact is the sort of thing that we teach our children not to do. I'm not expecting us to not discuss these things; I'm expecting us to not discuss them in a way that hurts us as a class. Keep it over the water…
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