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A Method I’ve Used to Eliminate Bad Tech Hires

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Re: A Method I’ve Used to Eliminate Bad Tech Hires

#461

Post by thinkmassive »

jpalomaki wrote: post #239
blazespin wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This works, but make sure they spend the 2 hours in your office and not 12 hours at home solving a 2 hour problem.. The other problem is that when you pay them you generate all sorts of nightmaris legal liabilities.

2 hour deadline and forcing the task to be done at the office turns it to a different kind test. This becomes more like how do you perform under stress and how well can you propose things out of your head. These are valuable skills as well, but I think having the weekend to spend with the problem more accurately models the actual development work.

Your point is valid, although technically it would be under pressure as opposed to stress. The difference might seem minor but it's rather significant, and it's a characteristic many employers would intentionally want to measure. I highly recommend the book Performing Under Pressure, by Weisinger & Pawliw-Fry.

Re: A Method I’ve Used to Eliminate Bad Tech Hires

#462

Post by titanomachy »

Tistel wrote: post #434

I did CS and have been a professional programmer for more than 15 years on pretty much every platform under the sun. I am very introverted. I still panic during the whiteboard phase of the interview about 75% of the time. Like go blank on simple stuff. Some problems need collaboration but I find I can only really think clearly when alone. I have been debating taking one of those public speaking classes because I prob…

If you are very introverted, then some of the companies that do collaborative whiteboard interviews would probably be a poor fit for you. The reason they interview that way is because they are collaborative work environments, or at least they like to see themselves that way. Extreme introverts, even highly skilled ones, might not fit in.

However, if you're experienced and skilled there will always be work available. You'll probably do OK. Overcoming your social anxiety would probably open some doors, though, and not just in management positions.

Re: A Method I’ve Used to Eliminate Bad Tech Hires

#463

Post by civilian »

mobiuscog wrote: post #384
wst_ wrote: post #339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does it mean "to have knowledge"? How much information qualifies you to be a knowledgeable? Plenty of us have a knowledge. Until, for one of your project you have to use Spring Boot and Hadoop at the same time. You know them well, you work with them already. But then you put both libs into one project and something throws an exception somewhere deep down in the unknown code. This is unexpected and does not come…

I guess that I disagree with many people on HN (and they certainly like to express this with downvotes). Fair enough. Thank you for your verbose reply - I'll reflect on it.

Well, let's explain the downvotes from 1 POV. The "copy/paste" comment just willfully misinterprets how StackOverflow is used.

I think that we just don't believe you. Did you arrive at every job with perfect knowledge in the areas you'd be working on? Have you not had to learn anything on the job?

If that's the case, then you're vastly overqualified. I feel like I'm being utilized as an employee the best when my manager says: "Hey, there's something weird happening in area X" or "I want you to explore feature X" and I get to dive deep into something for a few days. Our strengths are our ability to learn.

Re: A Method I’ve Used to Eliminate Bad Tech Hires

#464

Post by user5994461 »

paxy wrote: post #38

This is one of those "aha" solutions that people keep mentioning, but completely ignore how it would work in a non-ideal world. • What 2 hour project can you assign that would let the candidate go into enough depth for you to judge their code, design decisions, architecture skills? • If you give them more time (e.g. a weekend like in the article), is it still financially viable to the company, especially at $100/hr??…

> What 2 hour project can you assign that would let the candidate go into enough depth for you to judge their code, design decisions, architecture skills?

Write a program that reads a text file, and output each unique word with the number of times it appeared.

The program must be done in a programming language among: C, C++, C#, Go, Java, PHP, Python, Ruby.

Re: A Method I’ve Used to Eliminate Bad Tech Hires

#465

Post by user5994461 »

mkoryak wrote: post #334

I a single non tech question that is a very good heuristic for hire/no hire. What is your favorite 4 letter word. I usually ask at the beginning of interview and expect an answer at the end. Answers like fuck and shit === no hire. The other ones tell you a lot about the person

I felt like "What?!" and then I realized that's the expected answer :D

Re: A Method I’ve Used to Eliminate Bad Tech Hires

#466

Post by user5994461 »

redwards510 wrote: post #14
lacampbell wrote: post #11

I wish more companies would give example problems to solve in your own time. I did one for a fairly large Australian company, and they rejected it. By the time they got round to letting me know (very long turn around time) I had already found other employment. But still, their reasons for rejecting my solution - the output was not formatted to their liking, and they didn't seem to know what an anonymous function was…

I don't mind homework, but companies need to start specifying their salary range up front. I've been having a lot of time wasted lately by getting through Tech Interview #1 or Homework #1, only to find out their max salary is laughable for San Francisco. "You should just find that out upfront" I hear you saying. Well that is not always possible. Recruiters either don't know the range, or lie about not knowing, or you…

Most companies pay poorly.

If you are in the higher range of salary, you gotta find out which local employers/industries are worth talking to and limit your application to them. There probably aren't many.

Re: A Method I’ve Used to Eliminate Bad Tech Hires

#467

Post by clarry »

coldnebo wrote: post #295
mobiuscog wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would you need Stack Overflow ? Seriously, is the ability to copy/query from Stack Overflow expected from 'programmers' these days ?!

That's a bit rough. I think you are missing the other value proposition for SO: in a world of poorly documented interfaces, it gives cogent, vetted examples of what works. And you still need to have expertise to know which solutions are crap vs gold. In the 'old days' you had maybe one or two languages and the language was the thing (not vast libraries like Java or .NET .. oh excuse me, the guys who used to get tease…

I have to agree. Not necessarily on SO in particular, but on having access to resources in general.

Maybe someone who's only ever done web stuffs in javascript and RoR and the one framework that is being used for the task at the company he's applying for, it's not necessary to check facts.

When you've done two dozen programming languages, everything including low level assembly hacking, embedded & kernel development, graphics programming, network services, traditional desktop software, mobile software, video games and front end web stuffs and you've used more libraries and frameworks than you can count, it is quite possible that you're more than competent enough as a programmer. Yet you might need a bit of a refresher on whatever tech you're being asked to use because chances are it's not the only thing you focused on last year, or maybe indeed you haven't used it in a year or three.

Of course it's not black and white; if a company needs a C expert right now, somebody who knows all the pitfalls and can point at security issues & UB, then maybe he should do well on a test for that, without a reference. Although even then I'd let him use a copy of the standard (or its draft).

Re: A Method I’ve Used to Eliminate Bad Tech Hires

#468

Post by clarry »

jpalomaki wrote: post #239
blazespin wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This works, but make sure they spend the 2 hours in your office and not 12 hours at home solving a 2 hour problem.. The other problem is that when you pay them you generate all sorts of nightmaris legal liabilities.

2 hour deadline and forcing the task to be done at the office turns it to a different kind test. This becomes more like how do you perform under stress and how well can you propose things out of your head. These are valuable skills as well, but I think having the weekend to spend with the problem more accurately models the actual development work.

Pressure comes in many forms. Certainly, being able to handle pressure is a good thing. But how often is it needed and what kind of pressure is it? What kind of relief have you got?

As I understand it, the more common form of pressure would come from having to deliver things in a tight schedule, and perhaps in certain kinds of meetings and presentations. Not from being forced to work in a foreign environment with foreign computers & tools and unknown people hanging around, watching and JUDGING you. If a company puts an engineer in the latter position very often, it might be doing something rather wrong. Whereas in the former situation, employers can find relief in at least having colleagues they are familiar with and an environment they're used to & comfortable with.

Re: A Method I’ve Used to Eliminate Bad Tech Hires

#469

Post by OpenDrapery »

nolite wrote: post #104
pauljaworski wrote: post #21

This is literally the only way I've gotten job offers. I'm a very competent programmer, but when I'm asked to solve some silly puzzle with someone staring over my shoulder, I freeze under pressure and can not think at all. Luckily not everyone thinks solving leetcode problems is a good way to hire.

I've been in situations together with clients deploying a product, them presenting it for their managers, orpreparing for a big demonstration, and something goes wrong due to some unforeseen environmental factor you couldn't have imagined or predicted, and breaks in a way you don't expect, despite the weeks of testing you've done. You've got your main client staring over your shoulder, arms crossed saying fix it, and…

This is why the demo should just be a pre-recorded video that you can narrate live. Seriously.

Re: A Method I’ve Used to Eliminate Bad Tech Hires

#470

Post by blowski »

posterboy wrote: post #327
blowski wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like I'm completely the opposite of you! I'm fine with someone sitting next to me - I love pair programming. But cutting off internet access means no StackOverflow, no online documentation. The test should be very similar to normal working conditions.

'normal conditions' vary widely, normalisation to a lowest common denominator allows for easier comparison. The other extreme end is the young students assumption, "you don't need to know everything, just where you can find it", but the ammount of stuff I have to look up repeatedly increases exponentially with, eg, every wiki-page I read and that just takes too long to the point of impossibility.

For any software development position, normal working conditions probably includes an internet connection.
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