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DDoS attack halts heating in Finland amidst winter

metropolitan.fi

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Re: DDoS attack halts heating in Finland amidst winter

#61

Post by lisivka »

EugeneOZ wrote: post #29
saucetenuto wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> we like them and we prefer to be friends with them. How true is this? Every Finnish person I've ever met has mistrusted and feared Russia.

100%. Russia is multi-national country and we have some nations inside country that we don't like (sorry, but it's true), so I can say we like Finns even more than some russians :) They have awesome vodka (much, much better than any russian vodka), they are smart and friendly, not arrogant - awesome people. I highly doubt any russian leader, even Putler, will try to offend them.

Can you make full list of nations which are liked by Russians, please? It will be very short, I guess.

Re: DDoS attack halts heating in Finland amidst winter

#62

Post by digi_owl »

reitanqild wrote: post #42
EugeneOZ wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. Why russians? We actually neighbors (40 minutes from my home to Finland), we like them and we prefer to be friends with them. 2. Everybody can be smart after the case :) I'm sure now the'll design something more safe.

Agree. Some say Russia is the only neighbouring country Norway hasn't been at war with, although I cannot think of a time when we ever fought against the Finnish either. That said, no reason not to be careful after what has happened in Ukraine etc we should of course be careful: Russia can wipe out half of Norway just by turning around while they sleep.

Frankly i think that oversimplifies what happened in Ukraine.

The civil war may or may not have been part of the plan, but the primary Russian goal was to secure their supply route to the Black Sea naval port.

A port that Ukraine had been happily leasing to the Russians since the dismantling of the USSR.

There are no such reason for Russia to enter Norway. They already have Murmansk as a naval port, and they export way more oil and natural gas than Norway.

Re: DDoS attack halts heating in Finland amidst winter

#63

Post by digi_owl »

mrweasel wrote: post #22
ComteDeLaFere wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure why this is controversial. Boilers have an on/off switch, and when your company manages a large number of buildings, you automate and centralize on/off for efficiency's sake, no?

That fair enough, but in this case the heating system is directly attached to the internet. The correct way of designing something like this is having the heating system as one system and the management system as another. The management system can then receive information and MAYBE control some aspects of the heating system. If you remove or crash the management system, the heating system just reverts back to being a…

a combo of cost cutting and safety requirements?

Re: DDoS attack halts heating in Finland amidst winter

#64

Post by wavefunction »

ivan_gammel wrote: post #35
saucetenuto wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> we like them and we prefer to be friends with them. How true is this? Every Finnish person I've ever met has mistrusted and feared Russia.

Night clubs of St.Petersburg are full of Finnish people, who drink even more than locals. Apparently, the mistrust is limited to subjects other than alcohol.

iirc Finn's drink more per capita than any other nationalities...

Re: DDoS attack halts heating in Finland amidst winter

#65

Post by EugeneOZ »

lisivka wrote: post #61
EugeneOZ wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

100%. Russia is multi-national country and we have some nations inside country that we don't like (sorry, but it's true), so I can say we like Finns even more than some russians :) They have awesome vodka (much, much better than any russian vodka), they are smart and friendly, not arrogant - awesome people. I highly doubt any russian leader, even Putler, will try to offend them.

Can you make full list of nations which are liked by Russians, please? It will be very short, I guess.

Maybe. Your tone and prejudice doesn't help to make it longer.

Re: DDoS attack halts heating in Finland amidst winter

#66

Post by EugeneOZ »

geoka9 wrote: post #59
EugeneOZ wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are violating somebody's airspace every week, nobody cares. It's just political games of the current moment, it's not whole nation's decisions. Or you think we call referendum before each airspace trespassing?

I guess when Russia tried to invade them back in 1939 there was no referendum and it wasn't a whole nation's decision either. Heck, you could even deem the Russian people friendly towards the Finns (they were trying to free their Finnish comrades from the capitalist yoke!). I don't think it made the Finns any happier though. What I CAN see is the glee on the Russian discussion boards whenever an incident like that is…

You will not believe, but yes! Putin is fan of Stalin and they both use internal and external propaganda. And it may sound wild or ridiculous for you, but there is official agency where people get salary for writing comments on forums, youtube, facebook and other well-known public services. There was even article about it in some western newspaper. And reaction of people: 2 guys threw molotov cocktails to the window of that agency - that's our real relation to Putin.

Re: DDoS attack halts heating in Finland amidst winter

#67

Post by ryukafalz »

EugeneOZ wrote: post #24
mrweasel wrote: post #17

Regardless of the reason, deliberate targetting, accidental "drive by DDoS" or bad configuration, the question that remains is "Why is the heating dependent on being online?" It is completely reasonable if the heat system every so often "phones home", so report on usage, but it shouldn't actually stop working, if the network connection isn't available. You can blame, DDoS, hackers, network outages, the Russians, I do…

1. Why russians? We actually neighbors (40 minutes from my home to Finland), we like them and we prefer to be friends with them. 2. Everybody can be smart after the case :) I'm sure now the'll design something more safe.

> Everybody can be smart after the case :) I'm sure now the'll design something more safe.

Yes, but this is the kind of basic issue that everyone designing any sort of networked system should be aware of. The network is not reliable, and if you assume it is you're just setting yourself up for failure.

Re: DDoS attack halts heating in Finland amidst winter

#68

Post by robryk »

digi_owl wrote: post #63
mrweasel wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That fair enough, but in this case the heating system is directly attached to the internet. The correct way of designing something like this is having the heating system as one system and the management system as another. The management system can then receive information and MAYBE control some aspects of the heating system. If you remove or crash the management system, the heating system just reverts back to being a…

a combo of cost cutting and safety requirements?

What kind of incident could safety regulations be trying to prevent by forbidding a furnace from operating when remote control is unreachable?

Re: DDoS attack halts heating in Finland amidst winter

#70

Post by bsder »

mrweasel wrote: post #17

Regardless of the reason, deliberate targetting, accidental "drive by DDoS" or bad configuration, the question that remains is "Why is the heating dependent on being online?" It is completely reasonable if the heat system every so often "phones home", so report on usage, but it shouldn't actually stop working, if the network connection isn't available. You can blame, DDoS, hackers, network outages, the Russians, I do…

> the question that remains is "Why is the heating dependent on being online?"

1) So they can bill you. 2) Bad design

Billing is almost always the reason if the design is sane. And it's always a PITA.

Bad design is self-explanatory. Most programmers think in terms of features rather than function.

I have this discussion every day with people creating battery operated IoT devices.

Me: "What is your most important function?" Them: "Well, we need to do " Me: " No. Your most important function is to protect your battery. If the device is dead, nothing else matters. Nobody should be able to make you drain your battery without your permission. After that consideration, you can do something useful."

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