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Scouts and guides provide ‘mental health boost for life’

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Scouts and guides provide ‘mental health boost for life’

#51

Post by throwaway1892 »

majc2 wrote: post #20
throwaway1892 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I agree that the Scouts can be a bad place for that kind of things, which is why I think it might not be good for all childrens. (I had been a Scout for a few year and got a lot of benefits from it, but I know that my brother bullied a lot the younger scouts, so this is a real problem)

I help to run a Scout group in the UK. All adult volunteers receive anti-bullying and child safeguarding training. In my experience - bullying is not tolerated in 'these times'. But for sure, do what you think is best for your kids.

Both my brother and I were scouts in France in the 2000s, so it is fairly recent, but the situation might be different to the one in UK, the organization and the authorities being different. There is not a strong emphasis on bullying protection (as far as I know since I never been on the organization side of things), perhaps because there are different priorities or because it is not perceived as being a widespread problem.

I don’t have kids yet, but I think that scouting is a good option. Still, the experience one child will have will vary wildly from one scout association to the other and one local organization to the other, mostly because it depends a lot on the people he will end up with.

Also congrats on your engagement ! I always had a lot of respect for those who helped run our groups.

Re: Scouts and guides provide ‘mental health boost for life’

#52

Post by ragebol »

Luc wrote: post #15

I recently heard some advice from foreign students in the Netherlands, to not mention ones time in the scouts to Dutch co-students. Apparently it's looked down upon enough that it's best to keep it quiet, especially if you're trying to get a room in a house rented by students. Can a Dutch person comment on this? Is this true, and if so, why?

Dutch scout here, I've been a scout since I was 7 and I'm now 28 and a cub scout leader (kids aged 7-11).

Being in scouting can be perceived (in NL at least) as for nerds/geeks or 'corny' (don't know what is a good translation for the Dutch 'oubollig')

Especially when the kids hit puberty (the scouts/guides age), this negative image thing among school peers can be a reason for kids to quit. When I was that age, I didn't really care about much of that sort of talk and really enjoyed my time at scouting. Although there definitely was a negative image among school peers.

The image is changing for the better though. I certainly would not hide it.

I heard some nice stories from the scouts/guides at high school telling they hiked through the woods for the weekend with a backpack and went canyoning etc, while their non-scout peers only played video games inside.

When I was older and went to university, I noticed a lot of people did scouts when they were little kids. Not sure why they quit.

The social aspect is definitely a plus in some professions.

Re: Scouts and guides provide ‘mental health boost for life’

#53

Post by verbify »

moyta wrote: post #49
jjp wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More details on the study from NewScientist [1] They analysed data from a long-running study of almost 10,000 people across the UK who were born in November 1958. They found that 28 per cent of the study’s participants had been involved in the Scouts or Guides, and that these were 15 per cent less likely to suffer from anxiety or mood disorders at the age of 50 than their peers who didn’t join. Scouts or Guides were…

Part of it is you are forced to work through those kinds of issues in a hostile environment (outdoors, in the cold & wet with raccoons, bears, etc depending where your at) with other kids who are apt to get on your nerves after a while. Either you come out a more rounded person who can deal with shit blowing up in your face & making something amazing out of said explosion, or you stop showing up to go on monthly outi…

Just a note, it appears this was conducted in the UK which doesn't have a bear population, and barely has a raccoon population.

Re: Scouts and guides provide ‘mental health boost for life’

#54

Post by JoeAltmaier »

verbify wrote: post #53
moyta wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Part of it is you are forced to work through those kinds of issues in a hostile environment (outdoors, in the cold & wet with raccoons, bears, etc depending where your at) with other kids who are apt to get on your nerves after a while. Either you come out a more rounded person who can deal with shit blowing up in your face & making something amazing out of said explosion, or you stop showing up to go on monthly outi…

Just a note, it appears this was conducted in the UK which doesn't have a bear population, and barely has a raccoon population.

Most states in the US have no bears. Even California, which has a Grizzly on their state flag, has the joke "There is one more bear on the state flag that there is in the state of California"

Re: Scouts and guides provide ‘mental health boost for life’

#55

Post by bencollier49 »

caminante wrote: post #35
mcjiggerlog wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Totally agreed - very flawed study.

Did you look at the study? I'm biased to pile on too social science studies but the study in question made efforts to address these considerations. From another article [0]: "On average, scouts and guides were 15 per cent less likely to have developed mental illness or depression by middle age, even those from poorer backgrounds whose initial risk was higher." [0] http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/2016/11/10/scouts-…

Wealth correlates with parental involvement but not at 1.0 - in other words, if parental involvement is a confounding variable (most likely given its established effect on mental health), correcting for wealth won't eliminate it.

Re: Scouts and guides provide ‘mental health boost for life’

#56

Post by moyta »

redcalx wrote: post #45
jjp wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More details on the study from NewScientist [1] They analysed data from a long-running study of almost 10,000 people across the UK who were born in November 1958. They found that 28 per cent of the study’s participants had been involved in the Scouts or Guides, and that these were 15 per cent less likely to suffer from anxiety or mood disorders at the age of 50 than their peers who didn’t join. Scouts or Guides were…

There is a selection bias issue here. E.g. if there were some underling genetic disorder that causes anxiety, then that person is less likely to join a group.

Eh, I would say most new scouts are pretty anxious, and they also potentially come with other issues like asthma that likes to flare up, seizures, diabetes, etc. having had to deal with patrol members with these issues, sometimes 2 having one of these issues at the same time out of a group of 6 or 7.

Generally you deal with it as quickly & safely as possible, get the rest of your patrol to rally and do what is needed to get said person into a stable state, while sending one member to alert your assistant scoutmaster so that further help can be at the ready. That doesn't mean you get to shirk off and not go get his asthma meds, or get the guy with hypothermia some wool clothing and figure out a way to get him warmed up in short order (throw 3 people in a sleeping bag, or a warm (but not hot!) shower if you are lucky to have one).

If there is one thing I learned, Cotton Kills!

(referencing its heat wicking effect when wet)

Re: Scouts and guides provide ‘mental health boost for life’

#57

Post by verbify »

allyjweir wrote: post #34
Spearchucker wrote: post #5

I was a boy scout in the late '70s and early '80s. Loved it, and although I was too young to care at the time, my son will probably not join because religion. Yes, they have a "non-religious promise" now, but you're still subjected to it. I don't care for it, and my son will (like I did) get to choose for himself but (unlike me) without being forcibly subjected to the propaganda. All that said, scouting has changed s…

What country did you have that experience in? I'm an atheist and a Scout leader in the UK. When writing my programme I always include a spiritual component to it but leave it non-religious. We definitely discuss and explore different religions (in past year visited a Mosque, an Abbey and a Synagogue to learn about their cultures) but never focus hard on a religion or even suggest that holding a religious belief is ne…

> I promise that I will do my best Uphold our Scout values Do my duty to the Queen Help other people And to keep the Scout laws

Well I'm an atheist and a republican, so that wouldn't work for me.

Re: Scouts and guides provide ‘mental health boost for life’

#58

Post by moyta »

verbify wrote: post #53
moyta wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Part of it is you are forced to work through those kinds of issues in a hostile environment (outdoors, in the cold & wet with raccoons, bears, etc depending where your at) with other kids who are apt to get on your nerves after a while. Either you come out a more rounded person who can deal with shit blowing up in your face & making something amazing out of said explosion, or you stop showing up to go on monthly outi…

Just a note, it appears this was conducted in the UK which doesn't have a bear population, and barely has a raccoon population.

Yeah, I've only had to interact with bears in Alaska thus far thankfully.

Re: Scouts and guides provide ‘mental health boost for life’

#59

Post by porker »

majc2 wrote: post #20
throwaway1892 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I agree that the Scouts can be a bad place for that kind of things, which is why I think it might not be good for all childrens. (I had been a Scout for a few year and got a lot of benefits from it, but I know that my brother bullied a lot the younger scouts, so this is a real problem)

I help to run a Scout group in the UK. All adult volunteers receive anti-bullying and child safeguarding training. In my experience - bullying is not tolerated in 'these times'. But for sure, do what you think is best for your kids.

'these times' being the crucial distinctor.

I was a cub in the early '90s in a deprived ex-mining town in the UK. Fighting and bullying were rife.

My parents were warned by other parents they knew not to send me to the scout troop, as it operated more like a gang than a troop.

Re: Scouts and guides provide ‘mental health boost for life’

#60

Post by Lxr »

Artoemius wrote: post #3

It might be one of the cases where correlation doesn't imply causation. For an objective study, we would need to assign children to groups randomly. Otherwise, we can miss various obscure selection effects. (For example, if children who are more likely to be scouts, are also likely to be from a particular socioeconomic background).

This. So many studies fail to even mention this now. Next time you see a study on the health benefits of some new type of exercise for example, it's worth checking that the results aren't explained by the healthy group simply being more inclined to exercise (see also: less sleep leads to a shorter life, anxiety leads to health problems, etc)
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