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Lumo – A fast, standalone ClojureScript REPL that runs on Node.js and V8

anmonteiro.com

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Re: Lumo – A fast, standalone ClojureScript REPL that runs on Node.js and V8

#41

Post by _halgari »

iagooar wrote: post #2

Sometimes I think Clojure should have been developed on top of the ErlangVM instead of the JVM. I think that the ErlangVM solves a lot better the problems that Clojure is trying to solve. Also, seems like targeting the ErlangVM is an achievable feat, since Elixir in its version 1.3 has proven to be extremely solid. Crazy idea: if I wanted to implement Clojure on top of the ErlangVM, where should I start?

Read up on Lisp Favored Erlang, there's a lot of reasons why Clojure doesn't work well on BEAM, and they're covered by the author of LFE.

Re: Lumo – A fast, standalone ClojureScript REPL that runs on Node.js and V8

#42

Post by mac01021 »

iagooar wrote: post #2

Sometimes I think Clojure should have been developed on top of the ErlangVM instead of the JVM. I think that the ErlangVM solves a lot better the problems that Clojure is trying to solve. Also, seems like targeting the ErlangVM is an achievable feat, since Elixir in its version 1.3 has proven to be extremely solid. Crazy idea: if I wanted to implement Clojure on top of the ErlangVM, where should I start?

I think shared memory is foundational to Clojure's approach to concurrency, and that is something the Erlang VM cannot provide. So some main fixtures of Clojure's standard library, like atoms, STM, agents, become either useless or nonsensical.

It's also not clear to me wether the Erlang VM provides what Clojure needs to efficiently implement its user-defined types, protocols, etc

That said, a Clojure-like dialect of lisp built on Erlang is a fine idea and, as others have said, I would probably start by seeing how the Lisp-Flavoured-Erlang (LFE) guys built their lisp.

Re: Lumo – A fast, standalone ClojureScript REPL that runs on Node.js and V8

#43

Post by DigitalJack »

iagooar wrote: post #2

Sometimes I think Clojure should have been developed on top of the ErlangVM instead of the JVM. I think that the ErlangVM solves a lot better the problems that Clojure is trying to solve. Also, seems like targeting the ErlangVM is an achievable feat, since Elixir in its version 1.3 has proven to be extremely solid. Crazy idea: if I wanted to implement Clojure on top of the ErlangVM, where should I start?

I would start with lisp flavored erlang, and add clojure's immutable yet fast-copy data structures. They are based on work by Phil Bagwell,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hash_array_mapped_trie http://infoscience.epfl.ch/record/64398/files/idealhashtrees...

You might do better to create a Lisp Flavored Haskell (if one hasn't been started already). I'm sure haskeller's would be offended by the idea, but it already uses HAMT.

Re: Lumo – A fast, standalone ClojureScript REPL that runs on Node.js and V8

#44

Post by sordina »

DigitalJack wrote: post #43
iagooar wrote: post #2

Sometimes I think Clojure should have been developed on top of the ErlangVM instead of the JVM. I think that the ErlangVM solves a lot better the problems that Clojure is trying to solve. Also, seems like targeting the ErlangVM is an achievable feat, since Elixir in its version 1.3 has proven to be extremely solid. Crazy idea: if I wanted to implement Clojure on top of the ErlangVM, where should I start?

I would start with lisp flavored erlang, and add clojure's immutable yet fast-copy data structures. They are based on work by Phil Bagwell, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hash_array_mapped_trie http://infoscience.epfl.ch/record/64398/files/idealhashtrees... You might do better to create a Lisp Flavored Haskell (if one hasn't been started already). I'm sure haskeller's would be offended by the idea, but it already uses…

Why do you think Haskellers would be offended by this?

Re: Lumo – A fast, standalone ClojureScript REPL that runs on Node.js and V8

#45

Post by mark_l_watson »

Neat project, but back when I was using Clojure a lot, I lived in Emacs and the time spent for booting up my interactive environment was OK because once booted up, I would work for a long time without restarting from scratch. Same for me now with Emacs+Intero for interactive Haskell development - once everything is loaded, Everything is fast.

This project seems more suited to being able to write fast starting scripts in Clojurscript.

Re: Lumo – A fast, standalone ClojureScript REPL that runs on Node.js and V8

#46

Post by lispm »

anmonteiro90 wrote: post #40
lispm wrote: post #33

'fastest starting Clojure REPL'... which is still slow compared to alternatives.

Unfortunately, Node.js and V8 seem to be about 2.5X slower than JavaScriptCore for bootstrapped ClojureScript. I haven't found a way around it. I also don't mean to trick anyone and this is explained in the post.

To me 'fast' means more than startup time. The headline is just clickbait.

The time you are reporting is also not that 'fast'. Other tools start in a fraction of that time.

Re: Lumo – A fast, standalone ClojureScript REPL that runs on Node.js and V8

#47

Post by bpicolo »

sz4kerto wrote: post #8
iagooar wrote: post #2

Sometimes I think Clojure should have been developed on top of the ErlangVM instead of the JVM. I think that the ErlangVM solves a lot better the problems that Clojure is trying to solve. Also, seems like targeting the ErlangVM is an achievable feat, since Elixir in its version 1.3 has proven to be extremely solid. Crazy idea: if I wanted to implement Clojure on top of the ErlangVM, where should I start?

One of the main objectives of Clojure was interoperability with Java because of the ecosystem. Java and Erlang ecosystems are not comparable. Also, JVM is great. :)

The erlang ecosystem has new-found life with Elixir. The ecosystem for Elixir is rock-solid. Very high quality libraries abound.

Re: Lumo – A fast, standalone ClojureScript REPL that runs on Node.js and V8

#48

Post by grzm »

lispm wrote: post #46
anmonteiro90 wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, Node.js and V8 seem to be about 2.5X slower than JavaScriptCore for bootstrapped ClojureScript. I haven't found a way around it. I also don't mean to trick anyone and this is explained in the post.

To me 'fast' means more than startup time. The headline is just clickbait. The time you are reporting is also not that 'fast'. Other tools start in a fraction of that time.

sbcl isn't Clojure, is it? Or am I mistaken? I don't see the article or its title comparing it to repls in general.

Edit: original comment mentioned sbcl and included sbcl repl start-up time.

Re: Lumo – A fast, standalone ClojureScript REPL that runs on Node.js and V8

#49

Post by Gonzih »

anmonteiro90 wrote: post #13

Author here. Happy to answer any questions.

Any canche to see ARM binaries pre built? Would love to run this on raspberry pi / pocket chip. Also planck had io support. Are you planning to add support for io in idiomatic clojure to your project?

Re: Lumo – A fast, standalone ClojureScript REPL that runs on Node.js and V8

#50

Post by spinningarrow »

rcarmo wrote: post #24
sandGorgon wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With all due respect we are on Linux. No homebrew for us. Since you are already on the node platform..this makes sense for all of us.

Erm. No. I'd pay not to use npm at all.

Why? You can use it not at all for free!
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