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Dutch prison crisis: A shortage of prisoners

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Dutch prison crisis: A shortage of prisoners

#41

Post by YorickPeterse »

dep_b wrote: post #11

It's not a lack of crime that causes it but a lack of solved crimes. Violent crimes for example, if a violent crime gets reported in Germany they solve the crime in 80% of the cases but in Holland just 40%. People organise neighbourhood watch WhatsApp groups to prevent crime instead of relying on the police to fix things. Within ten years these groups will probably grow into armed and organised right-wing groups. And…

Dutch citizen here, this is bullshit. Neighbourhood watches using WhatsApp has nothing to do with a lack of police force, it's simply an "add-on" so neighbours can report suspicious behaviour to others.

> Within ten years these groups will probably grow into armed and organised right-wing groups.

You miss the part where we have very strict gun ownership rules, and very few have guns.

> Thanks for the down votes without knowing the facts.

You are being downvoted because what you provide aren't facts. You linked to a news article about neighbourhood watches, an article about a group of extremists/xenophobes, and an article about Dutch vs German law. None of this proves that The Netherlands is the a "dangerous" country where citizens take matters into their own hands, etc.

Re: Dutch prison crisis: A shortage of prisoners

#42

Post by mcv »

diskooo wrote: post #20

Yeah, no wonder - you rape somebody here and you have to clean the streets for a week. If you're unlucky that is. Police officers are too busy with mobile speed controls. They don't (dare) arrest anybody who's foul-mouthing them in their face. They have become laughing stock. Crime sentences (duration) are deplorable. Solved crime rates are way too low.

Low solved crimes rates are indeed a problem if that's true (it seems to be, but I'm not sure), but short sentences don't have to be a problem if they're effective at stopping inmates from returning to crime.

The goal should not be to lock people up, the goal should be to prevent crime.

Re: Dutch prison crisis: A shortage of prisoners

#43

Post by johnchristopher »

awjr wrote: post #22

The counter argument as to why there seem to be a lack of prisoners is under-resourcing the police. However the whole judicial system within the Netherlands appears to take a holistic approach to people, trying to help people get their lives back on track. Yes some people do need locking up, but there seems to be a recognition that locking up an addict for theft doesn't solve the long-term issue. Teaching them to man…

I take it you are from the Netherlands or living there. I have been in Belgium for some years now.

What's your position on Belgium outsourcing and renting cells in the Netherlands ?

Re: Dutch prison crisis: A shortage of prisoners

#44

Post by eyko »

diskooo wrote: post #20

Yeah, no wonder - you rape somebody here and you have to clean the streets for a week. If you're unlucky that is. Police officers are too busy with mobile speed controls. They don't (dare) arrest anybody who's foul-mouthing them in their face. They have become laughing stock. Crime sentences (duration) are deplorable. Solved crime rates are way too low.

Are you suggesting we should send people to prison for foul mouthing a police officer? And what if they foul mouthed a fellow civilian?

Re: Dutch prison crisis: A shortage of prisoners

#45

Post by LeonM »

waterflame wrote: post #21

Apparently the Dutch are not as smart as the Americans. It's simple: 1- Legalize Guns so people can shoot each other over anything 2- Privatize Prisons so that greedy CEOs can take over the "business" 3- Create laws that can criminalize you for any stupid thing you do, procedures that make everyone frustrated, and an economy that keeps you bankrupt most of the time

Of course you need to legalize guns, it's to protect yourself from other people with guns!

The only solution to the shootings in the US is to equip more people with guns, you know, for "protection".

Re: Dutch prison crisis: A shortage of prisoners

#46

Post by mrmrcoleman »

spiderfarmer wrote: post #36
diskooo wrote: post #20

Yeah, no wonder - you rape somebody here and you have to clean the streets for a week. If you're unlucky that is. Police officers are too busy with mobile speed controls. They don't (dare) arrest anybody who's foul-mouthing them in their face. They have become laughing stock. Crime sentences (duration) are deplorable. Solved crime rates are way too low.

Do you have any solved crime rate statistics, when compared to other countries? The Police manpower is on par with the UK. And the amount of prisoners / 100.000 inhabitants is on par with Germany. See sources in my other comment.

+1

Re: Dutch prison crisis: A shortage of prisoners

#47

Post by mrmrcoleman »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #37
martijn_himself wrote: post #19

Dutch national here. I'm pretty sure this is largely due to lenient prison sentences, no prison sentences at all for minor offences, and unsolved crimes. The cold-blooded convicted killer of the frontrunner in the Dutch elections in 2002 was released after 12 years, something which is unthinkable in other countries.

The main thing is that there's a difference in perspective. In e.g. the US legal system, prison time is punishment, a form of vengeance, of paying your debt to society. (and nowadays, a means to get a large slave labor force). In NL and Finland and the like, prison is more like forced rehabilitation - it recognises that committing crimes have a reason, and by solving the reason you solve the criminal behaviour.

Amen!

Re: Dutch prison crisis: A shortage of prisoners

#48

Post by dep_b »

askmike wrote: post #16
dep_b wrote: post #11

It's not a lack of crime that causes it but a lack of solved crimes. Violent crimes for example, if a violent crime gets reported in Germany they solve the crime in 80% of the cases but in Holland just 40%. People organise neighbourhood watch WhatsApp groups to prevent crime instead of relying on the police to fix things. Within ten years these groups will probably grow into armed and organised right-wing groups. And…

I've lived in the Netherlands for over 20 years in 5 different cities (in a small town like Geldermalsen as well as Amsterdam) and I have never experienced anything like that.. In all the places I've lived I (and everyone around me) always felt extremely safe. ----- EDIT: those are some weird sources: - first link is a dutch website called "Germany institute". It doesn't say anything about 40% non solvency (or 80% so…

For example:

https://decorrespondent.nl/2038/opheldering-verzocht-acht-op...

But why don't you post some counter information? Or inform yourself while not finding any information that supports your opinion at all.

> second link talks about how neighbourhood watches have grown five fold, to a whapping 661 watches over 17 million people.

You can try to ridicule it but it's not going to change the fact that it's getting really big. Because those watches are the official ones that are registered, not some angry dads from the neighbourhood united in a WhatsApp group.

-----

Not sure why I can't reply to you. But we're not talking about corruption or general safety. We're talking about the police giving you a cold shoulder when something does happen.

Re: Dutch prison crisis: A shortage of prisoners

#50

Post by charlesdm »

CRidge wrote: post #27
martijn_himself wrote: post #19

Dutch national here. I'm pretty sure this is largely due to lenient prison sentences, no prison sentences at all for minor offences, and unsolved crimes. The cold-blooded convicted killer of the frontrunner in the Dutch elections in 2002 was released after 12 years, something which is unthinkable in other countries.

This doesn't sound unthinkable in other countries. I'm from Norway, where the maximum prison sentence is 21 years, with a third of that often being deducted for good behavior, leaving 14 years.

Should a killer get released after 14 years though, after "good behavior"? If we're talking about premeditated murder, you can be pretty sure you're dealing with an individual who doesn't have good behavior.

Second, 14 (or 21) years for murder, really? A life isn't worth a lot anymore these days..

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