Apparently the Dutch are not as smart as the Americans.
It's simple:
1- Legalize Guns so people can shoot each other over anything
2- Privatize Prisons so that greedy CEOs can take over the "business"
3- Create laws that can criminalize you for any stupid thing you do, procedures that make everyone frustrated, and an economy that keeps you bankrupt most of the time
Dutch prison crisis: A shortage of prisoners
21–30 of 183 posts
Re: Dutch prison crisis: A shortage of prisoners
#22The counter argument as to why there seem to be a lack of prisoners is under-resourcing the police. However the whole judicial system within the Netherlands appears to take a holistic approach to people, trying to help people get their lives back on track.
Yes some people do need locking up, but there seems to be a recognition that locking up an addict for theft doesn't solve the long-term issue. Teaching them to manage and overcome their addiction brings significantly better long-term results to society.
More interestingly the article mentions that dangerous criminals are locked up, but also vulnerable individuals that have broken the law and because the best help to get them back on track is within the prison system.
Dutch prisons are not just there to incarcerate, but to help people back to being fully functioning members of society.
To get "revolving door" prisoners down to 10% vs 56% in the UK is a huge achievement.
Re: Dutch prison crisis: A shortage of prisoners
#23It's not a lack of crime that causes it but a lack of solved crimes. Violent crimes for example, if a violent crime gets reported in Germany they solve the crime in 80% of the cases but in Holland just 40%. People organise neighbourhood watch WhatsApp groups to prevent crime instead of relying on the police to fix things. Within ten years these groups will probably grow into armed and organised right-wing groups. And…
Not sure what it's like in other cities, but Amsterdam is pretty safe in my experience. Some parts of Amsterdam had a pretty bad reputation 15 years ago, but that too seems to be a lot less these days.
Re: Dutch prison crisis: A shortage of prisoners
#24It's not a lack of crime that causes it but a lack of solved crimes. Violent crimes for example, if a violent crime gets reported in Germany they solve the crime in 80% of the cases but in Holland just 40%. People organise neighbourhood watch WhatsApp groups to prevent crime instead of relying on the police to fix things. Within ten years these groups will probably grow into armed and organised right-wing groups. And…
Any data to back that up? I've lived all my live in Amsterdam and this is the first time I've heard of this. It sounds made up.
I notice that most of the people who disagree live in Amsterdam. Maybe it's different in other cities. Or in more rural areas.
Re: Dutch prison crisis: A shortage of prisoners
#25Dutch national here. I'm pretty sure this is largely due to lenient prison sentences, no prison sentences at all for minor offences, and unsolved crimes. The cold-blooded convicted killer of the frontrunner in the Dutch elections in 2002 was released after 12 years, something which is unthinkable in other countries.
In Finland, "for life" means 12 years.
Re: Dutch prison crisis: A shortage of prisoners
#26Apparently the Dutch are not as smart as the Americans. It's simple: 1- Legalize Guns so people can shoot each other over anything 2- Privatize Prisons so that greedy CEOs can take over the "business" 3- Create laws that can criminalize you for any stupid thing you do, procedures that make everyone frustrated, and an economy that keeps you bankrupt most of the time
I recognize your sarcasm. Upvoted.
Re: Dutch prison crisis: A shortage of prisoners
#27Dutch national here. I'm pretty sure this is largely due to lenient prison sentences, no prison sentences at all for minor offences, and unsolved crimes. The cold-blooded convicted killer of the frontrunner in the Dutch elections in 2002 was released after 12 years, something which is unthinkable in other countries.
This doesn't sound unthinkable in other countries. I'm from Norway, where the maximum prison sentence is 21 years, with a third of that often being deducted for good behavior, leaving 14 years.
Re: Dutch prison crisis: A shortage of prisoners
#28It's not a lack of crime that causes it but a lack of solved crimes. Violent crimes for example, if a violent crime gets reported in Germany they solve the crime in 80% of the cases but in Holland just 40%. People organise neighbourhood watch WhatsApp groups to prevent crime instead of relying on the police to fix things. Within ten years these groups will probably grow into armed and organised right-wing groups. And…
I would down vote you if I could, because you are being very disingenuous. I have never lived anywhere as safe as Holland, backed up both by statistics and the general atmosphere.
Just to be clear, what percentage of neighbourhood's have WhatApp patrols? I bet it's under 0.1%.
If you feel unsafe in Holland you should be terrified to live in the US:
http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/Netherlands...
Re: Dutch prison crisis: A shortage of prisoners
#29Apparently the Dutch are not as smart as the Americans. It's simple: 1- Legalize Guns so people can shoot each other over anything 2- Privatize Prisons so that greedy CEOs can take over the "business" 3- Create laws that can criminalize you for any stupid thing you do, procedures that make everyone frustrated, and an economy that keeps you bankrupt most of the time
> Legalize Guns so people can shoot each other over anything
The pinnacle of honest characterizations /s
Re: Dutch prison crisis: A shortage of prisoners
#30It's not a lack of crime that causes it but a lack of solved crimes. Violent crimes for example, if a violent crime gets reported in Germany they solve the crime in 80% of the cases but in Holland just 40%. People organise neighbourhood watch WhatsApp groups to prevent crime instead of relying on the police to fix things. Within ten years these groups will probably grow into armed and organised right-wing groups. And…
Any data to back that up? I've lived all my live in Amsterdam and this is the first time I've heard of this. It sounds made up.
This might give some insight as to where the 40% comes from (the image shows numbers up to 40%, interestingly) but it's an aggregate number, not violent crimes per se (it's in Dutch but the infographic is about the numbers anyway):
https://www.nrc.nl/nieuws/2016/03/24/een-kaart-om-misdaad-te...
(I'm assuming that you were referring to the percentage given when you asked for data to back "that" up :)