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A Method I’ve Used to Eliminate Bad Tech Hires

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Re: A Method I’ve Used to Eliminate Bad Tech Hires

#211

Post by reledi »

GrinningFool wrote: post #100
usloth_wandows wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you can't code under pressure, you aren't a very competent programmer. Real world projects come with high pressure scenarios for software engineers. Code monkeys may be able to get away with low pressure, minimally impactful projects.

Upvoting you to help prevent your comment from reaching oblivion - I don't agree with you, but I think what you said is a common belief. The thing is, it's a vastly different kind of pressure. When I am coding as part of a job - by myself or with others - there is no inner monologue in the corner of my brain doing something like this: "Could do that or... no damn, that's O(n^2), damn I'm taking too long that one look…

Thanks for clearing that up, it's exactly the same for me. I find technical mock interviews help.

Re: A Method I’ve Used to Eliminate Bad Tech Hires

#212

Post by deepGem »

DuckDuckGo follows this process. They in fact do a paid 3 month assignment. May be that's taking it to the extreme and perhaps works very well for them. If I were looking for a job and this process was followed, I'd definitely be game. I will most likely be following a similar procedure while hiring as well. Just come to the office hang out with us for a day - we'll fly you in, put you in a nice hotel + pay you a per diem. All we'll do is work through a problem, not through a series of daunting hypothetical interview questions or some algorithm nonsense that you'll never use in your job.

Re: A Method I’ve Used to Eliminate Bad Tech Hires

#213

Post by vhab »

Udo wrote: post #200
blazespin wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This works, but make sure they spend the 2 hours in your office and not 12 hours at home solving a 2 hour problem.. The other problem is that when you pay them you generate all sorts of nightmaris legal liabilities.

> This works, but make sure they spend the 2 hours in your office and not 12 hours at home solving a 2 hour problem.. This goes against the core message of the article. The candidate is supposed to think about a problem on their own, and propose a well-reflected solution on Monday. That's pretty much the opposite of "sit down in this noisy corner in an unknown environment and give us something in two hours". > The ot…

> If hiring a freelancer to do a little thing tends to generate all sorts of nightmarish legal liabilities, your company is either a government contractor or it has even bigger structural problems than hiring.

It might not be an issue for your company, but your candidate might have a non-compete (or other clause) preventing them from accepting compensation or even performing work for another company at all.

Things get trickier as soon as money is involved.

Re: A Method I’ve Used to Eliminate Bad Tech Hires

#214

Post by bjt »

vhab wrote: post #213
Udo wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This works, but make sure they spend the 2 hours in your office and not 12 hours at home solving a 2 hour problem.. This goes against the core message of the article. The candidate is supposed to think about a problem on their own, and propose a well-reflected solution on Monday. That's pretty much the opposite of "sit down in this noisy corner in an unknown environment and give us something in two hours". > The ot…

> If hiring a freelancer to do a little thing tends to generate all sorts of nightmarish legal liabilities, your company is either a government contractor or it has even bigger structural problems than hiring. It might not be an issue for your company, but your candidate might have a non-compete (or other clause) preventing them from accepting compensation or even performing work for another company at all. Things ge…

Any company trying to enforce such a non-compete against someone who just earned $200 would spend a lot more than that in legal fees. This feels like legal paranoia to me.

Re: A Method I’ve Used to Eliminate Bad Tech Hires

#215

Post by deepGem »

blazespin wrote: post #172
zachd1_618 wrote: post #49

This. 100% this. As many others are saying, I find that this is the most comfortable way for me as an interviewee to demonstrate that I do in fact know what I'm talking about. Put me in front of a room full of people and a whiteboard and throw something at me, and I'll freeze. Freezing in that situation and being a bad engineer are wholly separate things. Anecdotally, when I get one of these problems, I spent 20 minu…

This works, but make sure they spend the 2 hours in your office and not 12 hours at home solving a 2 hour problem.. The other problem is that when you pay them you generate all sorts of nightmaris legal liabilities.

What's the legal liability ? It's not illegal to do a small project for someone and get paid for it. If the interviewee is on a H1B or some visa like that then I can see some issues.

Re: A Method I’ve Used to Eliminate Bad Tech Hires

#216

Post by zerr »

deepGem wrote: post #212

DuckDuckGo follows this process. They in fact do a paid 3 month assignment. May be that's taking it to the extreme and perhaps works very well for them. If I were looking for a job and this process was followed, I'd definitely be game. I will most likely be following a similar procedure while hiring as well. Just come to the office hang out with us for a day - we'll fly you in, put you in a nice hotel + pay you a per…

The only issue with DuckDuckGo job requirements - they require you to be an existing/active user of their product...

Re: A Method I’ve Used to Eliminate Bad Tech Hires

#217

Post by RexetBlell »

elchief wrote: post #96
throwaway4job wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't a viable approach for much of the hiring pool, as a majority of working engineers have contracts which explicitly forbid work for contract for other employers. As such, if you hire any of those, you're hiring somebody with a proven willingness to ignore their contract, which is a strong anti-pattern.

Or a $200 donation to their fave charity

This is a great idea, no legal issues. The important thing is that since the candidate loses 2 hours of his time working on the problem, the employer has to lose something equivalent of that too.

I would be much more willing to do the project if I knew the employer would lose $200. Among other things, this shows that I'm valued.

Re: A Method I’ve Used to Eliminate Bad Tech Hires

#218

Post by koide »

peteretep wrote: post #204
greglindahl wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a hiring manager and candidate dealing with external recruiters, that's not what I saw happen.

How did you get people you didn't hire to share with you their actual salary preferences, and companies that didn't hire you their actual salary ranges? Sounds like that would be super useful info

This is outside the US, but I just ask at the first call: please give me a range on your expectations to see if it overlaps with ours and that it makes sense to move forward and avoid wasting time. Everyone answers, most giving a number directly and few counterasking for our range for the position, which of course I disclose at that point.

Re: A Method I’ve Used to Eliminate Bad Tech Hires

#219

Post by kctess5 »

deepGem wrote: post #212

DuckDuckGo follows this process. They in fact do a paid 3 month assignment. May be that's taking it to the extreme and perhaps works very well for them. If I were looking for a job and this process was followed, I'd definitely be game. I will most likely be following a similar procedure while hiring as well. Just come to the office hang out with us for a day - we'll fly you in, put you in a nice hotel + pay you a per…

In some sense many companies do this via 3 month internships. They're basically just low cost future employee vetting opportunities. Of course, they are generally limited to college students.
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