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A Method I’ve Used to Eliminate Bad Tech Hires

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Re: A Method I’ve Used to Eliminate Bad Tech Hires

#131

Post by Rapzid »

um304 wrote: post #57
pauljaworski wrote: post #21

This is literally the only way I've gotten job offers. I'm a very competent programmer, but when I'm asked to solve some silly puzzle with someone staring over my shoulder, I freeze under pressure and can not think at all. Luckily not everyone thinks solving leetcode problems is a good way to hire.

Exactly my case. My startup is ending and I'm looking for work. Wonder if there's a way to look up companies that hire by giving assignments.

If the company is large enough there may be interview process reviews on glass door.

Re: A Method I’ve Used to Eliminate Bad Tech Hires

#132

Post by peteretep »

dclowd9901 wrote: post #102
peteretep wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Recruiter here with a history of working as a developer > but companies need to start specifying their salary > range up front The costs outweigh the benefits for employers (encouraging existing employees to ask for more money, losing candidates who will accept significantly less but wouldn't apply at a lower range, etc) -- so don't hold your breath. > I've been having a lot of time wasted lately by > getting through…

"The costs outweigh the benefits for employers" That's funny, I thought this was a employee's market... Better get with the program, bub. I'm actually in favor of 100% transparent salaries. I've yet to hear a compelling argument against it that wasn't simply "it feels icky."

    > I'm actually in favor of 100% transparent salaries.
    > I've yet to hear a compelling argument against it
    > that wasn't simply "it feels icky."
I have no strong feeling at all on them, but generally when I find myself unable to make a strong case for or against a divisive issue, and can't think of any compelling arguments either way, it's indicative that I haven't researched it properly, or am simply discarding perspectives that don't agree with my existing biases.

Re: A Method I’ve Used to Eliminate Bad Tech Hires

#133

Post by peteretep »

kguthrie wrote: post #128
peteretep wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Recruiter here with a history of working as a developer > but companies need to start specifying their salary > range up front The costs outweigh the benefits for employers (encouraging existing employees to ask for more money, losing candidates who will accept significantly less but wouldn't apply at a lower range, etc) -- so don't hold your breath. > I've been having a lot of time wasted lately by > getting through…

> The costs outweigh the benefits for employers (encouraging existing employees to ask for more money, losing candidates who will accept significantly less but wouldn't apply at a lower range, etc) -- so don't hold your breath. > State it upfront when you submit your application, rather than "find that out" As an employee, I would say the costs of specifying my expected salary range upfront outweigh the benefits.

    > As an employee, I would say the costs of specifying
    > my expected salary range upfront outweigh the benefits
That's interesting. Having well over a decade of being an employee, having been a hiring manager, having been a freelancer, and having been a recruiter, I'd do it every time.

Re: A Method I’ve Used to Eliminate Bad Tech Hires

#134

Post by wasted_intel »

totalZero wrote: post #112
67726e wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't code with people staring at me, talking to me, asking me questions. If you can more power to you, but if that reflects the nature of the job then they can take that one and shove it. It simply doesn't reflect reality.

How about when you're alone, it's 3am, you haven't slept much in the past three days, and you have a 10am deadline to meet?

Your job sounds terrible.

Re: A Method I’ve Used to Eliminate Bad Tech Hires

#135

Post by datashovel »

I won't promise anything, but have been contemplating an idea for a relatively long blog post about exactly this.

Having lived for the last several years in a very rural area of the midwest I would say that not only do you need the right mechanisms in place to sort through / vet candidates, but you also need to be willing to constantly venture outside your comfort zone. Why are you always recruiting locally? Why aren't you willing to look in all locations throughout the country? To be frank, I would guess that almost never do you find a "diamond in the rough" outside of large metropolitan areas, but my personal experience is that as soon as I work with a team in a metropolitan area I realize I'm almost always substantially ahead of the game in terms of best practices / capacity, etc. I would probably argue that I'm an exception to the rule, but (not to be political) the recent US election leads me to believe that the "norm" is not the "norm" any more. People are thinking outside the box and we (as recruiters / employers) need to realize this and not instantly discount a person just because of where they live (btw I'm pretty strongly Dem living in a mostly Rep world).

Re: A Method I’ve Used to Eliminate Bad Tech Hires

#136

Post by rnovak »

Having been on the hiring side of this, I'll note that it does require a bit of start-up cost (i.e. work) on the employer's part, if you want to standardize the process (i.e. to make sure you're giving the same exercise to every candidate, the expectations are clear and consistent, etc).

For example, I set up the project for my team in 7 different languages (Ruby, C, Python, Perl, C++, Java, Go), with the appropriate project structure, etc, for each. This took considerable work on my part, but the end result is that I can judge the output based on whatever the candidate is most comfortable in.

Granted, that's all assuming my skills in each language doesn't completely suck (hopefully).

Re: A Method I’ve Used to Eliminate Bad Tech Hires

#137

Post by Apocryphon »

TheSpiceIsLife wrote: post #81
usloth_wandows wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you can't code under pressure, you aren't a very competent programmer. Real world projects come with high pressure scenarios for software engineers. Code monkeys may be able to get away with low pressure, minimally impactful projects.

It's not like software development is the same as being a fighter pilot. Code now or die isn't usually something most people face in their day job.

The Swordfish art of tech interviewing

Re: A Method I’ve Used to Eliminate Bad Tech Hires

#138

Post by kohanz »

eranation wrote: post #33

This is great, except the over the weekend part. I have a wife and kids, I rather be with them than solve (even paid) challenges. I rather take half a day off, solve it right there in the environment and team that will potential work with you. I would encourage candidates to also reach out with questions during the challenge and see how they communicate ideas and react to suggestions. Other than that, completely agre…

Completely agree. I love the idea, except the weekend part. Not only do I not want to do your coding puzzles over the weekend, it will also make me think that weekend work is a thing at your company.

Re: A Method I’ve Used to Eliminate Bad Tech Hires

#139

Post by dang »

pmiller2 wrote: post #69

There's an inexplicably [dead] comment in reply to your comment here. I'm reposting it so more people can see it. @throwaway4job, you appear to be hellbanned for no reason I can discern. :( > throwaway4job 8 minutes ago [dead] [-] > This isn't a viable approach for much of the hiring pool, as a majority of working engineers have contracts which explicitly forbid work for contract for other employers. As such, if you…

> There's an inexplicably [dead] comment [...] I'm reposting it

Please don't do this. We created vouching for just this case and it works much better. To vouch for a [dead] comment (assuming your account has > 30 karma), click on its timestamp to go to its page, then click 'vouch' at the top.

Besides being distractingly off-topic, making a big deal out of [dead]ness confuses the thread when the comment does get vouched for and rescued, as typically happens for good but [dead] comments. For example, in this case the replies to throwaway4job's comment are now split across multiple places in the thread. We'll move them.

We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12916816 and marked it off-topic.

Re: A Method I’ve Used to Eliminate Bad Tech Hires

#140

Post by extortionist »

tdeck wrote: post #110

Love the idea of paying people. That's great. However, consider the perspective of someone who already has a job in the industry. If every company did this, I wouldn't be able to interview at more than one per week. Not only that, but the Friday and Monday onsites mean I miss work on TWO separate days. This would be a non-starter for me if I had any decent pool of interest from other companies, although it's great fo…

Agreed with this. I wouldn't take a 4-day weekend to do interviews and a homework assignment unless I was desperate or already out of a job.
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