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A Method I’ve Used to Eliminate Bad Tech Hires

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Re: A Method I’ve Used to Eliminate Bad Tech Hires

#91

Post by arthurdenture »

ahh wrote: post #10

This system is interesting but has a crucial flaw: I legally can't take part. I have a job now, which claims ownership over any tech-related IP I create. There are processes for getting exceptions, but a) you won't get them for actual job-related things b) I'm not asking Google for an exception so I can interview somewhere else. This is true for nearly anyone with a standard SV job. So if you're willing to restrict y…

"I legally can't take part" is overstating the problem. It's not illegal for you to take part. What do you care if Google can claim ownership over the IP you create? And why would Google care to do so? The IP is for a throwaway problem; it's worthless.

(xoogler, with some knowledge of this area)

Re: A Method I’ve Used to Eliminate Bad Tech Hires

#93

Post by wpietri »

throwaway4job wrote: post #59
zachd1_618 wrote: post #49

This. 100% this. As many others are saying, I find that this is the most comfortable way for me as an interviewee to demonstrate that I do in fact know what I'm talking about. Put me in front of a room full of people and a whiteboard and throw something at me, and I'll freeze. Freezing in that situation and being a bad engineer are wholly separate things. Anecdotally, when I get one of these problems, I spent 20 minu…

This isn't a viable approach for much of the hiring pool, as a majority of working engineers have contracts which explicitly forbid work for contract for other employers. As such, if you hire any of those, you're hiring somebody with a proven willingness to ignore their contract, which is a strong anti-pattern.

Will they? I've seen contracts saying you can't work for competitors, but I'm not sure I've ever seen one that forbids all other employment.

In California, it's illegal to prevent employees from moonlighting: https://californiaemploymentlaw.foxrothschild.com/2015/03/ar...

Re: A Method I’ve Used to Eliminate Bad Tech Hires

#94

Post by nunez »

ahh wrote: post #10

This system is interesting but has a crucial flaw: I legally can't take part. I have a job now, which claims ownership over any tech-related IP I create. There are processes for getting exceptions, but a) you won't get them for actual job-related things b) I'm not asking Google for an exception so I can interview somewhere else. This is true for nearly anyone with a standard SV job. So if you're willing to restrict y…

Just do it (but not on their time or hardware lol); their process for finding these things out is REALLY slow unless your thing goes really public

Also, fuck Google and their ridiculously limiting anti-entrepreneurial IP agreement

Re: A Method I’ve Used to Eliminate Bad Tech Hires

#95

Post by davidgay »

metaphor wrote: post #88
ahh wrote: post #10

This system is interesting but has a crucial flaw: I legally can't take part. I have a job now, which claims ownership over any tech-related IP I create. There are processes for getting exceptions, but a) you won't get them for actual job-related things b) I'm not asking Google for an exception so I can interview somewhere else. This is true for nearly anyone with a standard SV job. So if you're willing to restrict y…

>> I have a job now, which claims ownership over any tech-related IP I create. Is there an omitted qualifier to this, e.g. ...while on company time; for IP with sufficient correlation to your primary role? I'm having a difficult time swallowing the legal enforceability of "all-day-everyday-any-tech-related-IP" outside of military personnel subject to the UCMJ. Would that suggest that you technically couldn't contribu…

Yes.

Re: A Method I’ve Used to Eliminate Bad Tech Hires

#96

Post by elchief »

throwaway4job wrote: post #59
zachd1_618 wrote: post #49

This. 100% this. As many others are saying, I find that this is the most comfortable way for me as an interviewee to demonstrate that I do in fact know what I'm talking about. Put me in front of a room full of people and a whiteboard and throw something at me, and I'll freeze. Freezing in that situation and being a bad engineer are wholly separate things. Anecdotally, when I get one of these problems, I spent 20 minu…

This isn't a viable approach for much of the hiring pool, as a majority of working engineers have contracts which explicitly forbid work for contract for other employers. As such, if you hire any of those, you're hiring somebody with a proven willingness to ignore their contract, which is a strong anti-pattern.

Or a $200 donation to their fave charity

Re: A Method I’ve Used to Eliminate Bad Tech Hires

#97

Post by nunez »

My current employer (ThoughtWorks) interviews like this. I had a week to do the problem they gave me (it was unpaid).

It was the best interview I've ever done. I rode a huge wave of emotions the entire time and learned A TON.

Technical minutiae interviews like The one I did at Google really suck

Re: A Method I’ve Used to Eliminate Bad Tech Hires

#98

Post by rizzom5000 »

sillysaurus3 wrote: post #85
throwaway4job wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't a viable approach for much of the hiring pool, as a majority of working engineers have contracts which explicitly forbid work for contract for other employers. As such, if you hire any of those, you're hiring somebody with a proven willingness to ignore their contract, which is a strong anti-pattern.

It's possible to not pay them. Most candidates will do this for free, as it's far better than traditional ineffective hiring practices. The thing is, there are always reasons why this method isn't viable. It's not till you try it that you notice huge gains.

That only makes sense if you're talking about people who are unemployed. As someone who is already employed full-time, I simply don't have the time to solve your problems for free just to see if you'd like to invite me over for an interview.

I avoid these problems like the plague and very much prefer to whiteboard. If you pay me consultant rates, I can more easily justify the effort.

Re: A Method I’ve Used to Eliminate Bad Tech Hires

#100

Post by GrinningFool »

usloth_wandows wrote: post #66
pauljaworski wrote: post #21

This is literally the only way I've gotten job offers. I'm a very competent programmer, but when I'm asked to solve some silly puzzle with someone staring over my shoulder, I freeze under pressure and can not think at all. Luckily not everyone thinks solving leetcode problems is a good way to hire.

If you can't code under pressure, you aren't a very competent programmer. Real world projects come with high pressure scenarios for software engineers. Code monkeys may be able to get away with low pressure, minimally impactful projects.

Upvoting you to help prevent your comment from reaching oblivion - I don't agree with you, but I think what you said is a common belief.

The thing is, it's a vastly different kind of pressure. When I am coding as part of a job - by myself or with others - there is no inner monologue in the corner of my brain doing something like this:

"Could do that or... no damn, that's O(n^2), damn I'm taking too long that one looks bored, if I instead put those keys in a hash... no, I'm sure there's a better way, running out of time though, is he looking at his phone now? Okay, what was the profile of merge sort again? ... oh, shit! She felt like she had to offer me a guiding hint, I'm doing it wrong!"

And it never stops going. It picks apart every choice I make, and by five minutes into the interview I come across as a sub-articulate mess.

In no other high-pressure situation does this happen to me. Hell, this past summer I actually spoke at a conference and I didn't have the kind of trouble I do in an interview.

Whiteboarding, paired coding, participating in architecture design - these things come easily. In the context of an interview, though, it goes out the window.

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