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“DRM is Used to Lock in, Control and Spy on Users”

torrentfreak.com

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Re: “DRM is Used to Lock in, Control and Spy on Users”

#51
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Last I check no one is being forced to create movies, music, books, software, or any other creative works. No, most do it because they think they can make money off it. Movies are expensive to make, and without the expectation of making that money back (or more - its an investment), why would make the movie? Books can take years to write (cough, GRRM), and the authors are frequently paid up front for the book. Woul…

> Would GRRM still be writing ASOIF if he wasn't able to make a living off it? Perhaps, perhaps not. Paying him makes it a lot more likely. But copyright and DRM is about forcing people to pay - this has nothing to do with being able to make a living or not.

[deleted]

Re: “DRM is Used to Lock in, Control and Spy on Users”

#52
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>we as consumers have no inherit right to view So if I am walking past a home and they happen to be playing a movie I do not own I some how "owe" the created monetary compensation? > use their work without paying the creator's asking price. that depends on how you define use, I do not believe a content creator has the ethical authority to tell me how I can or can not arrange the bits on my computer system, or what o…

Fortunately, you don't have to speculate about your first case in the US: the legal system has carved out exceptions to copyright against this kind of issue under the name of "Fair Use". > I do not believe a content creator has the ethical authority And here's the crux of our disagreement. You don't believe that the creator should have rights over their creation, perhaps because their creation came to you over a medi…

> You don't believe that the creator should have rights over their creation, perhaps because their creation came to you over a medium that allows for easy duplication.

That "easy duplication" is entirely the point. The concept of property is based on the limited nature of physical objects. Land, food, books, player piano roles, and DVDs are scarce resources[1]. The zero-sum nature of scarce objects is where concepts like "theft" and "property" apply. We invented the concept of property to manage scarcity.

When dealing with anything that isn't scarce, the entire concept of "property" doesn't apply. Math, for example - those "ones and zeros" - is non-scarce. Teaching someone that 1+2 is 3 doesn't deprive the teacher future use of addition or the numerals 1, 2, or 3. Most reasonable people would agree that nobody gets to claim property rights over math, because it's a non-scarce idea.

> but that's all it is, a justification.

The unwarranted justification is claiming that unlimited ideas are a scarce resource that requires property rights.

> results in less original content.

Do you also complain that teaching algebra - where ideas are copied from teacher to student - results in fewer novel discoveries in mathematics? Just as teaching math tends to lead to more math discoveries, freely using non-scare stories, sounds, music, images, etc, often leads to more content creation. This is so common we invented terms like "remix" and "cover band" to describe some of the ways media is reused.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scarcity

Re: “DRM is Used to Lock in, Control and Spy on Users”

#53
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fortunately, you don't have to speculate about your first case in the US: the legal system has carved out exceptions to copyright against this kind of issue under the name of "Fair Use". > I do not believe a content creator has the ethical authority And here's the crux of our disagreement. You don't believe that the creator should have rights over their creation, perhaps because their creation came to you over a medi…

> You don't believe that the creator should have rights over their creation, perhaps because their creation came to you over a medium that allows for easy duplication. That "easy duplication" is entirely the point. The concept of property is based on the limited nature of physical objects. Land, food, books, player piano roles, and DVDs are scarce resources [1]. The zero-sum nature of scarce objects is where concepts…

This is the fundamental disagreement on this issue: whether mental creations can be owned. The idea of property is an idea too; it can apply if we wish it to apply.

We can go down this rathole again, or agree to disagree. Btw the law does recognize ownership today.

Re: “DRM is Used to Lock in, Control and Spy on Users”

#54
So many legal lawyers here.

If the numerical representation of content can be arbitrarily shifted via encoding, encryption, or masking, how can anything be copyrightable?

DRM itself encrypts and morphs the numerical representation, thus obscuring its precise identification.

Re: “DRM is Used to Lock in, Control and Spy on Users”

#55
post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>disrespect the right of the authors to get a fair share for their work. Because there is no right or "fair share". Creators have only the right to ask for money for their works, they have no right to compensation at all. Further from an American Legal perspective there is no "choice is between authors not getting paid and freedom of expression" the constitutional reason for copyright, patent and trademark is to pro…

> Creators have only the right to ask for money for their works, they have no right to compensation at all. Similarly, we as consumers have no inherit right to view or use their work without paying the creator's asking price. Nor do we have the right to force the creators to create work. IOW, the only way to really motivate creators to create is to compensate them somehow (money works great). Capitalism at work.

I disagree. The economy works as follows, the seller asks the price that the seller gets away with and the buyer pays the price that the buyer gets away with. Anything else added to that is protectionism. So if the seller gets a good payment then kudos for the seller. Similar if the buyer is able to get it for free then kudos for the buyer. Also there are many motivations that enable creators to create, narrowing it down to only money is a very shallow view of creation.

Re: “DRM is Used to Lock in, Control and Spy on Users”

#56

So many legal lawyers here. If the numerical representation of content can be arbitrarily shifted via encoding, encryption, or masking, how can anything be copyrightable? DRM itself encrypts and morphs the numerical representation, thus obscuring its precise identification.

...as opposed to nonlegal lawyers?

Re: “DRM is Used to Lock in, Control and Spy on Users”

#57

So many legal lawyers here. If the numerical representation of content can be arbitrarily shifted via encoding, encryption, or masking, how can anything be copyrightable? DRM itself encrypts and morphs the numerical representation, thus obscuring its precise identification.

The numerical representation of the content is not what's in question. It's the user-perceived content.

Let's say you take the contents of a book, add an extra space between some words, then compress/hash the new contents. The numerical representation could be completely different, but the user-perceived content is the same.

Sorry to get all legally lawful on over your ass, but the law of the land (and common sense) dictates that the new contents are still the works of the original author even though the numerical representation is completely different.

Re: “DRM is Used to Lock in, Control and Spy on Users”

#58
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If I'm not free to ignore the outcome of the first issue In what society are you free to ignore the penalties for breaking the law without consequence? Saying that the lethal violence is at the forefront of our legal system because you're not free to ignore the law with impunity seems quite disingenuous. I won't disagree that ultimately our laws are backed by the threat of lethal force. All societies have this same…

This is why libertarians only support laws that are DEFENSIVE in nature, i.e law banning Assault, rape, murder, theft, fraud, etc. Outside of these types of laws, enforcement of other laws like Copyright, Drug Possession, etc are unethical initiation of force. Here is a quote from what many consider a foundation book on libertarian legal theory http://bastiat.org/en/the_law.html#SECTION_G004 The law is the organizati…

> libertarians only support laws that are DEFENSIVE in nature

This is key for a few reasons. By rephrasing everything from 'X is wrong because ...' to an issue of the right transgressed you're entirely sidestepping the issue of victimless crimes. Second, they're by nature proportional.

> only what the individual forces have a natural and lawful right to do

Right, a collective is the sum of its members so it has their rights and no more.

This firmly roots all power in the individual. It's semantically incorrect to write a libertarian law allowing actions that people themselves don't have the right to perform. Again, sidestepping entirely the tyranny of the majority.

It's not perfect, but it's a far better base to start from.

Re: “DRM is Used to Lock in, Control and Spy on Users”

#59
post #3

Interestingly copyright industry has grown to be one of the greatest enemies of the democracy and freedom of speech. I think that the shame is shared though as too many people started to disrespect the right of the authors to get a fair share for their work. It still does not follow that we should prefer rights of the authors over more general civil rights. If the choice is between authors not getting paid and freedo…

>>disrespect the right of the authors to get a fair share for their work. Because there is no right or "fair share". Creators have only the right to ask for money for their works, they have no right to compensation at all. Further from an American Legal perspective there is no "choice is between authors not getting paid and freedom of expression" the constitutional reason for copyright, patent and trademark is to pro…

The problem with the copyright lobbyism is that it affects not just Disney but everyone else. Right now nothing will ever reach the public domain through copyright expiration.

It would be okay if copyright law had a short duration like 10 years but a way to extend the copyright term by another 10 years for a flat fee that keeps up with inflation. It doesn't have to be an increasing fee. The point of this fee is to check whether a business can still extract money out of their IP. If they can't then release it to the public domain.

If Mickey Mouse is a cash cow that lasts forever then so be it.

Re: “DRM is Used to Lock in, Control and Spy on Users”

#60
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fortunately, you don't have to speculate about your first case in the US: the legal system has carved out exceptions to copyright against this kind of issue under the name of "Fair Use". > I do not believe a content creator has the ethical authority And here's the crux of our disagreement. You don't believe that the creator should have rights over their creation, perhaps because their creation came to you over a medi…

> You don't believe that the creator should have rights over their creation, perhaps because their creation came to you over a medium that allows for easy duplication. That "easy duplication" is entirely the point. The concept of property is based on the limited nature of physical objects. Land, food, books, player piano roles, and DVDs are scarce resources [1]. The zero-sum nature of scarce objects is where concepts…

I don't disagree and I hate DRM, but your math argument is slightly flawed. The teacher gets compensated evenly no matter how many students they teach, while conversely the artist gets paid per student, if you will. Neither scenario is a perfect analogy, but I just wanted to point that out.
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