A Method I’ve Used to Eliminate Bad Tech Hires • Hacker News Board

Re: A Method I’ve Used to Eliminate Bad Tech Hires

#51

Post by torkable » Thu, Nov 10, 2016, 1:28 AM UTC

"RULE #1 — Give them the weekend to solve the problem." I won't say this is a bad rule, I'll just say that you should be flexible.

I declined to participate in an exercise similar to this while looking for a job this summer. The task was pretty complex, complex enough that I knew it was going to take a significant fraction of my weekend, but doable.

I live in Colorado and if you think I'm going to spend the weekend working on a job offer instead of heading out for the activities I want to do, you may be surprised to get my email saying no thank you.

tl;dr some people don't wanna do your interview on their weekend so be flexible.

Re: A Method I’ve Used to Eliminate Bad Tech Hires

#52

Post by countingteeth » Thu, Nov 10, 2016, 1:29 AM UTC

a13n wrote: post #30

I find this pretty reasonable if you're interviewing with a handful of companies but I remember doing 20+ interviews in 2-3 weeks in university and would simply not have time for that.

I'm all for pounding the pavement if your network doesn't line you up, but 20+ in 2-3 weeks suggests a very different assembly-line approach. I'm having difficulty imagining how it would be logistically possible for me to line up 20-30 interviews in 2-3 weeks where I had predetermined that they were all places I wanted to work and could make my case. I would hope for a batting average and negotiating leverage where if I got in the door at a lot fewer places I would find something that worked.

Then again, everyone is different.

Re: A Method I’ve Used to Eliminate Bad Tech Hires

#53

Post by omribahumi » Thu, Nov 10, 2016, 1:29 AM UTC

ronilan wrote: post #29

Any employer should be required, by law, to pay candidates interviewed, an hourly wage equal to that of an employee in same position. It will be good for candidates, good for employers and good for the economy.

Do you mean pay them for the interview time? People will start interviewing for a living.

Re: A Method I’ve Used to Eliminate Bad Tech Hires

#54

Post by mahyarm » Thu, Nov 10, 2016, 1:29 AM UTC

This is the coding exercise/homework interview.

A bunch of place do this in some form or another, usually without paying the person, and as part of a series of interviews on an interview day.

I myself don't like homework questions, mostly because I still have to do an onsite, and I only have so much time to do these things. They are usually much longer than 2 hours too. If you communicate upfront that it should only take 2 hours and would remove the need for an all day onsite, then I would definitely be pretty excited. It would probably let you interview a segment of employed engineers who don't want to sacrifice a vacation day to do interviews.

I really like coding exercises as a general interview type although, I feel like it's the most important & real part of an interview.

The paid version doesn't work for people on a visa or are worried about IP assignment agreements, but I like the charity idea brought up by another person to solve this.

Re: A Method I’ve Used to Eliminate Bad Tech Hires

#55

Post by minitech » Thu, Nov 10, 2016, 1:30 AM UTC

zenincognito wrote: post #46

I am afraid this is just another marketing for a paid product. There are a lot of assumptions being stated as a fact. > Since the candidate is getting paid, the candidate treats it as a legit consulting session and therefore gives their best effort in solving the problem. If a candidate has applied for a job then it is in his interest to treat that application as his career depends on it. Best effort is wagered not o…

> > It gives the candidate a real life sense of how you interact with people on the team.

> Where is this coming from ? This is just another assumption the author is making.

It’s coming from the fact that you’re giving someone a project and discussing the result with them.

> > The biggest issue I have seen with tech hires is that they can become very defensive over their solution. I will purposely challenge their solution to see how they react.

> You are asking us to be non-judgemental in the paragraphs above and then being judgemental on the candidate becoming defensive.

That’s not being “judgemental”. It’s just using regular judgement – evaluating a person’s willingness to listen to criticism. The earlier points were about hearing rationale for choices without previous criticism.

> > Pay them immediately on Monday

> Why ?

It shows that you’re well-organized and keep your word.

I think most of your arguments were coloured by the mention of a paid product.

Re: A Method I’ve Used to Eliminate Bad Tech Hires

#56

Post by physcab » Thu, Nov 10, 2016, 1:31 AM UTC

One thing I enjoyed about consulting is the opportunity to work with so many companies that gave me a glimpse into their work culture. There have been companies where the experience I had interviewing completely shielded the shitshow underneath. And other companies where the interview process was really boring and routine, but the people inside were dynamic and amazing to work with.

I like this approach of merging consulting and interviewing because it gets interviewer and interviewee closer to the source of truth about how a real work relationship will exist.

Re: A Method I’ve Used to Eliminate Bad Tech Hires

#57

Post by um304 » Thu, Nov 10, 2016, 1:34 AM UTC

pauljaworski wrote: post #21

This is literally the only way I've gotten job offers. I'm a very competent programmer, but when I'm asked to solve some silly puzzle with someone staring over my shoulder, I freeze under pressure and can not think at all. Luckily not everyone thinks solving leetcode problems is a good way to hire.

Exactly my case. My startup is ending and I'm looking for work. Wonder if there's a way to look up companies that hire by giving assignments.

Re: A Method I’ve Used to Eliminate Bad Tech Hires

#58

Post by philipkglass » Thu, Nov 10, 2016, 1:34 AM UTC

paxy wrote: post #38

This is one of those "aha" solutions that people keep mentioning, but completely ignore how it would work in a non-ideal world. • What 2 hour project can you assign that would let the candidate go into enough depth for you to judge their code, design decisions, architecture skills? • If you give them more time (e.g. a weekend like in the article), is it still financially viable to the company, especially at $100/hr??…

I read the money/difficulty calibration as "pick a problem that you think would take someone about 2 hours to implement and offer $200 for completion." Not "offer $100 per hour and then cough up $1600 when the following Monday the candidate swears that they spent two full days on it."

Re: A Method I’ve Used to Eliminate Bad Tech Hires

#59

Post by throwaway4job » Thu, Nov 10, 2016, 1:35 AM UTC

zachd1_618 wrote: post #49

This. 100% this. As many others are saying, I find that this is the most comfortable way for me as an interviewee to demonstrate that I do in fact know what I'm talking about. Put me in front of a room full of people and a whiteboard and throw something at me, and I'll freeze. Freezing in that situation and being a bad engineer are wholly separate things. Anecdotally, when I get one of these problems, I spent 20 minu…

This isn't a viable approach for much of the hiring pool, as a majority of working engineers have contracts which explicitly forbid work for contract for other employers.

As such, if you hire any of those, you're hiring somebody with a proven willingness to ignore their contract, which is a strong anti-pattern.

Re: A Method I’ve Used to Eliminate Bad Tech Hires

#60

Post by bbcbasic » Thu, Nov 10, 2016, 1:39 AM UTC

For me time is money is less important than time time. 100 hours aggregated over interviewing for a few shops would yield $10k which is nice but not extremely useful, whereas those 100 hours taken out of family time is a real pain in the butt.

The solution to this I feel is a bit of a prisoner dilemma because the entity that can make this easier is the company the candidate is a planning to leave (!). If they have flexible working, make it easy to take vacation on short notice etc. then that ironically helps.