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Donald Trump’s Contract with the American Voter [pdf]

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Re: Donald Trump’s Contract with the American Voter [pdf]

#501

Post by derekdahmer »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #281
pfraze wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Coal mining and related production is a large employer. It's about propping up small coal-towns.

Put out of work coal miners on social security early at their full benefit and fund it with a carbon tax. This doesn't even need to be a carbon tax; simply a transfer from the general fund. The average coal miner salary is ~$22/hr, or ~$42k/year. 174,000 coal workers in the US @ $31,668k/year (the max SS benefit permitted) = $5.5 billion/year. This is not expensive, nor in perpetuity, only the years from now until th…

This attitude is why democrats have so much trouble understanding why republicans have so much support from working class voters. People don't want to go on welfare, they want a job.

It's about identity. Free money can keep you fed but it can't give you a sense of pride and self worth.

Re: Donald Trump’s Contract with the American Voter [pdf]

#502

Post by trprog »

tdaltonc wrote: post #479
darawk wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Some of it sounds ridiculous - for every new federal regulation, 2 existing regulations must be eliminated. How is that considered feasible by any rational person? It might sound great if you don't think too hard about it. IMO this is the best thing in there. The burden of complex legislation is incredible, and there are tens of thousands of pages that could be simplified and/or removed entirely. It'd be a very lon…

I agree that regulations should be simpler, but this sounds like a bad way to achieve that. Are "regulations" strictly countable? It sounds like trying to minimize the number of lines (or characters) in a code base. Fewer lines (or characters) doesn't mean it will be more readable.

It also sounds trivial to game.

So we want to add new regulation A. We have removed regulation B and C. Purely by coincidence the new regulation A is roughly the same length as A, B and C combined. But its one regulation.

Re: Donald Trump’s Contract with the American Voter [pdf]

#503

Post by stcredzero »

arcticfox wrote: post #446
stcredzero wrote: post #430

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that's a little harsh. There's no first principle that the average citizen should know that says "clean coal" isn't possible. The average US citizen probably knows that burning carbon-based fuels re-forms molecular bonds, in such a way that the resulting stuff (CO2 and water) embodies much lower energy. Just start applying that concept to the notion of capturing that carbon. The result is that you're going to…

> coal is one of the cheapest fuels around > the result is you're going to wind up with a lot less usable energy Nothing in those "basic thermodynamics" conclusions, which I agree are obviously true, implies that it's commercially nonviable. Yes, it will by necessity be more expensive than dirty coal. Will it be more expensive than anything else? I'm not sure. It would require advanced knowledge of sequestering metho…

That's pretty much the same thing as knowing that solar panels can charge a battery, that battery can run LEDs and heating elements, then stopping there and concluding that Solar Freakin Roadways can be a thing. In other words, that's just enough knowledge to spout science, but not enough to actually apply it to actual life.

Re: Donald Trump’s Contract with the American Voter [pdf]

#504

Post by waterphone »

elchief wrote: post #406
finid wrote: post #360

Fully-funds the construction of a wall on our southern border with the full understanding that the country of Mexico will be reimbursing the United States for the full cost of such wall; establishes a two-year mandatory minimum federal prison sentence for illegally re-entering the U.S. after a previous deportation, and a five-year mandatory minimum federal prison sentence for illegally re-entering for those with felo…

Ban Western Union "send money back to family in Mexico" payments until Mexico agrees to pay for the wall: https://assets.donaldjtrump.com/Pay_for_the_Wall.pdf

I take it Trump hasn't heard of Bitcoin.

Re: Donald Trump’s Contract with the American Voter [pdf]

#505

Post by ArkyBeagle »

jdc0589 wrote: post #122

> FIFTH, I will lift the restrictions on the production of $50 trillion dollars’ worth of job-producing American energy reserves, including shale, oil, natural gas and clean coal This is what I have the biggest problem with. The ONLY WAY we are going to continue making progress towards widespread clean renewable energy is if it is financially beneficial for corporations to continue investing in R&D. Sure, there are s…

I just came out of an energy company job, and you're outta luck. There's nothing in the energy sector to make me think they'll innovate unless they stumble into it.

Now, certain people might be able to sidle into energy but it'll be pretty rough going.

I was simply trying to buck up '80s-'90s era control systems to stop breaking things and this was perceived as "they're takin' 'er jerbs." Nothing was understood. My interpretation is that there is considerable willful ignorance of how technology might be used in that sector that will never be broken. You're threatening people's identity if you do.

Just thorough testing ( at least to my lights what is thorough - I have 30+ years safety-and-life-crticial realtime embedded experience) was seen with a jaundiced eye. A "real oil guy" does it on a laptop on the jobsite.

The rest of your post is spot on. However, at least natural gas will be deadly cheap for the forseeable future. We had one project to try to capture flare gas, but it cost (much) more than the captured gas will ever be worth.

Re: Donald Trump’s Contract with the American Voter [pdf]

#506

Post by bsilvereagle »

stcredzero wrote: post #205
jdc0589 wrote: post #122

> FIFTH, I will lift the restrictions on the production of $50 trillion dollars’ worth of job-producing American energy reserves, including shale, oil, natural gas and clean coal This is what I have the biggest problem with. The ONLY WAY we are going to continue making progress towards widespread clean renewable energy is if it is financially beneficial for corporations to continue investing in R&D. Sure, there are s…

The fact that the term "clean coal" can be bandied about with a straight face says something about the state of science education of the general public. (Pretty much the same knowledge needed to instantly realize that various wind/solar operated water-from-air devices and Solar Freakin Roadways aren't viable from back of the envelope calcs.)

You may be interested to learn more about coal-direct chemical looping: https://www.osu.edu/features/2013/ohio-state-develops-clean-...

Re: Donald Trump’s Contract with the American Voter [pdf]

#507

Post by slg »

jobu wrote: post #6

Whatever you think about Trump or the policies in that document, it's clearer and more concise than anything I've seen from an elected official.

This New Yorker cartoon seems to sum up your position. [1] I think it is pretty clear that the policies in the document are a more important to most of us than the clarity of their presentation.

[1] - http://www.newyorker.com/cartoons/a20072

Re: Donald Trump’s Contract with the American Voter [pdf]

#508

Post by waterphone »

finid wrote: post #335

propose a constitutional amendment to impose term limits on all members of Congress. Not a bad idea. begin removing the more than two million criminal illegal immigrants from the country and cancel visas to foreign countries that won’t take them back. Only the criminal ones. OK

Bad idea that sounds like a good idea until you discover that it actually leads to greater special interest influence because nobody in Congress knows how to do anything so lobbyists just do it for them. http://prospect.org/article/populist-road-hell-term-limits-c...

Re: Donald Trump’s Contract with the American Voter [pdf]

#509

Post by ArkyBeagle »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #281
pfraze wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Coal mining and related production is a large employer. It's about propping up small coal-towns.

Put out of work coal miners on social security early at their full benefit and fund it with a carbon tax. This doesn't even need to be a carbon tax; simply a transfer from the general fund. The average coal miner salary is ~$22/hr, or ~$42k/year. 174,000 coal workers in the US @ $31,668k/year (the max SS benefit permitted) = $5.5 billion/year. This is not expensive, nor in perpetuity, only the years from now until th…

But in a society where personal identity is increasingly at risk, you can't pay for that. It's fiction, but you end up with at least a few Boyd Crowder characters from "Justified."

FWIW, this is how Trump voters are made. And at least in the U.S., the coal industry looks done.

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