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The smug style in American liberalism

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Re: The smug style in American liberalism

#301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trump and the GOP could absolutely repeal Obamacare — and 22 million people would lose health insurance http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/healthcare/trump-and-the-gop-...

Why not just put them on Medicare?

They won't. That's the logical option and should've been the first one picked too. But the Republicans oppose that because "single payer is socialism and socialism is eevvvviilll." Come on this nonsense has to stop. Just accept that single payer will solve a problem the markets refuse to solve.

Re: The smug style in American liberalism

#302
post #83
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's what I was thinking. As long as I don't get more than six MRIs a year I come out ahead.

The problem with this reasoning (and by extension, any system where there's a possibility to opt out of healthcare) is that if you have a serious ailment that you can't afford to treat, we have to let you die. But I believe even in the USA you will get (emergency) treatment and the bills racked up, right?

The problem with insurance is that literally everyone will have a serious ailment one day. Very few people die instantly, huge majority of deaths are from cancer and cardiovascular

Re: The smug style in American liberalism

#303
post #97
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, because anyone can afford $2500/month. It's practically free.

Why is healthcare so expensive in the states? People seem to focus on private Heath insurance vs Obama care. But neither should be so expensive. Why are other countries able to provide way cheaper care?

In a lot of countries people find it perfectly reasonable for the doctor to say something like "Your father is old, and we can operate to remove his tumor, but he's not going to live much longer no matter what we do. We don't have unlimited resources so we're not going to operate."

People in the US aren't use to making those kinds of tradeoffs, which is why we spend half of our medical dollars on the last year of people's lives. We might decide not to operate, but financial considerations won't enter into the decision.

That's why I will be surprised if anything the government does short of rationing care will affect the cost of medicine in the US. It's about expectations.

Re: The smug style in American liberalism

#304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Life of the mother" is very different from "it's my body", though. If I believe that life begins at conception, I can perhaps bend to a "life of the mother" exception. "It's my body"? But it's not just your body - there's another life involved as well - so you can't just do what you want with your body.

Okay, so you can bend to "life of the mother" exception. I can follow this a bit further then. How do you handle and account for miscarriages? A sizable number of pregnancies end in miscarriage - especially if we view life as beginning at conception. So in miscarriage the mother has ended the life of the child. What's the framework with which you believe this should be dealt with? What's to be done with people who ha…

How is a miscarriage any different to an infant dying of natural causes?

Sometimes babies die naturally it's sad, but there is a huge difference between dying naturally and dying due to intervention or neglect.

Surly you can see there is a big difference between a woman having medically difficulty bringing a child to term and an abortion? In the one case she has done all she can to provide for the child in the other she has actively pursued this child's termination.

If the mother and the child are going to die with out intervention you attempt to save both. That may mean an early birth or c-section giving the child little to no chance at survival, but you still try, you still treat that child as a human.

Re: The smug style in American liberalism

#305
post #66
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is, I don't buy it. I don't believe it. I listen to how Trump talks, how Trump supporters talk, all the racism, the sexism, the xenophobia, it's just not right. There's no excuse. It's the beginning of fascism. Btw, I'm German. (I've lived in North America for more than ten years)

Trumps treatment of women in the past makes my skin crawl, as an individual I think his behavior on that count is despicable. But if I were given the option of Hillary or Trump I'd vote Trump. I might be wrong but I've not heard him say anything that is racist. No doubt there are some that are supporting him because they're racist, that doesn't mean all are. On that note I would love someone to prove me wrong and sho…

What I find particularly perplexing—especially as an ethnic Christian who does not follow the faith—is that pre-campaign Trump was pro-choice. I've never understood why my Christian friends and co-citizens accept being pandered to on this issue to lock in their votes. Especially when other platforms, to me—especially when I ardently followed the faith—seem inexplicably counter to Christ's commands and teachings. That Trump is demonstrably antithetical to the person of Christ and exhibits none of the fruits of the Spirit leave me utterly dumbfounded at the abject disavowal of their principles and surrendering unto Caesar for the chance to push their religious convictions as legitimate and defensible grounds for coercive public policies (that won't affect them because they embody the principles they already live by).

> The left also treats Christians with disdain. You have to get people on side if you want them to vote for you. Not tell them they're idiots.

Sadly, the right, and many hyper-political Christians and their various organizations do the same thing here, treating those who disagree with them with disdain. Saying they're going to hell. Calling them idiots, fags, feminazis, and more. They feel justified in viscerally attacking those who are outside their tribe. Both sides only succeed in alienating their fellow citizens and prefer to divide and conquer to push their agendas. Since 1992, few Republicans, and even fewer conservative Christians, have done anything particularly noteworthy in the realm of refusing the politics of divisive disdain to get people on their side.

> Immigration in the states is not in a good way, having so many people living illegally is not good for anyone. Trump might sound harsh but at least he is willing to tackle the problem (even in a way I'd not go for).

You know what would really help tackle this problem, but will never happen as a systemic and rigorous response? Going after the businesses and employers who utilize illegal labor to profit, and punishing them severely for breaking the law. And then doing it again. And again. If there wasn't a ready market willing to exploit illegal immigrants, there'd arguably be a far more manageable problem. Instead of going after those American business owners and operators who choose this route, we instead focus all the blame and punishment on the immigrants themselves, who are—for myriad reasons—seeking a better life in the states. We give the issue over to the crucible of politicization, enabling it to boil and froth and invoke the anger of those who are economically displaced and otherwise left behind. We let the anger boil over, shoving it back under the rug, back in the closet, hoping it will go away. One side chooses to stoke this into a xenophobic fervor. The other side sits weakly on the sidelines, professing empathy for the plight of immigrants, while showing little understanding toward those who are growing angry.

If we are going to remain a nation of laws, then fidelity to law must remain our guiding ideal. People want to come to America. They want to have citizenship, with all its benefits and responsibilities. We should make that easier. Employers want to take advantage of cheap illegal labor. They want to pay under the table, and enable the problem. We should make that a much more painful path to choose. Next time a group of illegal workers are discovered, how about we quietly connect them with immigration officials and get their paperwork started, while making a huge media deal of arresting the people who hired them and hauling them off to jail?

We can solve problems without making people afraid.

The primary problem with Trump and his most vocal supporters, as far as the opposition is concerned, is that they've packaged these problems and their messages in a demonstrably angry—I dare say hateful-sounding—package. And it is scary to those who feel like they're the target of the anger. They feel the disdain. The hate. They say they hear (hopefully metaphorical and rhetorical) calls for blood. This should not be.

Re: The smug style in American liberalism

#306
post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I upvoted you. However, I think that Clinton was seen as the safe candidate: she had name recognition, she didn't scare Wall Street. That is not wholly the same as being the candidate of Smug. I trust that the Democratic Party will understand that it has run out of ideas. Will the Republicans know what to do? It strikes me as quite possible that Trump's qualities could be those of a one-term president.

Was that "didn't scare Wall Street" or was it "had accepted tens of millions of dollars from Wall Street"? If Wall Street gets final vet, the Democrat party has changed from the days of FDR. (OT: will they or any of the other Clinton Family Foundation donors ask for refunds?) The inability to see how conflicts of interest look from outside is a Smugness that has afflicted Democrats and Republicans both. Trump could d…

Pedantic nit: it's the Democratic Party. Its members are Democrats.

Re: The smug style in American liberalism

#307
post #21
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well good news! Now you won't have it at all. Wait until you try medical bankruptcy on for size.

I will assume that gozur88 has some source on the 85% increase. If that isn't true, ignore this. A prerequisite for an 85% increase is some payment beforehand. If they had no health insurance, they wouldn't have been paying for health insurance, and therefore their rates could not increase.

My guess is an increase compared to the first-year prices under the ACA. Nobody who talks about the premium increases does so from the perspective that those who are impacted by the increases started at zero. I've seen mine nearly double each enrollment period.

Re: The smug style in American liberalism

#308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trump and the GOP could absolutely repeal Obamacare — and 22 million people would lose health insurance http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/healthcare/trump-and-the-gop-...

Why not just put them on Medicare?

Which part of the GOP now in control of the federal and most state governments wants to do that?

Re: The smug style in American liberalism

#309
post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the margin of error relative to the electorate was fairly small But was it fairly small in statistical significance? A polling error of 3% is likely big enough to confirm a consistent and very significant bias. It's like throwing a coin and getting 52000 heads and 48000 tails. "Only" a 4% error, but sure as hell evidence your coin is biased.

Typical political polls have a margin of error of between 3-5%. You'd expect to see to see a 3% miss roughly 5% of the time. What's perplexing to me is that the 3% error occurred in a polling average of dozens, perhaps hundreds of polls. If it were just one poll, a 3% miss is quite within the realm of possibility. But in this case it was a range of polls that centered on Clinton +4% and itself had a roughly Gaussian…

I suspect it's about demographic turnout weighting. Lots of polls were using 2012 as the template.

Re: The smug style in American liberalism

#310
post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Under many of ACA policies, you would still end up paying that amount, because they have ridiculously high deductibles. So if you are a relatively healthy person that does not regularly go to the doctors to get that chewed up earlier, you are still going to be left holding the bag for non-catastrophic, but expensive services. I have been burned by this in the past.

>I have been burned by this in the past. Poor choice of words, douche.

His name is douche and he's commenting on a guy being burned! Guess I'm not funny I'm just mean....
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