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Donald Trump Is Elected President

nytimes.com

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Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#921

Post by ubernostrum »

mmmpop wrote: post #895
rmc wrote: post #887

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Socialism. Neoliberal capitalism isn't work. Why not take the wealth from the very wealthy and give it to those who don't have it? Income and wealth redistribution>

What a poorly thought-out out and even sophomoric thing to post.

Want to have some fun? Read Alexis de Tocqueville on early American inheritance law.

Using the law to redistribute, as a preventive measure against generational accumulation of wealth (and thus power), was woven into the fabric of the United States early on. Being against this type of redistribution, or deriding it as "sophomoric", is the new and non-traditional thing in America.

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#922

Post by eli_gottlieb »

commenting wrote: post #135
user837387 wrote: post #55

He got elected on all these promises. 1- Build the wall and make Mexico pay for it 2- Deportation Force on day one 3- Repeal obamacare 4- Renegotiate NAFTA 5- Bring back coal 6- Reduce taxes for the rich 7- Ban muslims 8- Prosecuting Hillary Clinton 9- Bring back American companies to the USA 10- Etc. The Senate and the House are Republicans and the Supreme court will lean republican after his appointment. What do yo…

It's like 1930s Germany all over again, except that Muslims are the new Jews. You'd think we would have learned from last time a racist, populist demagogue gained control of a nation. (Yes, I'm aware that "Godwin's Law invoked". In this case, it's actually relevant.)

We Jews are still the Jews here.

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#923

Post by [deleted] »

ep103 wrote: post #358
matthewmacleod wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now let's move forward on the direction that's been chosen I guess one of the bigger problems is that it's utterly unclear what direction has been chosen. I think it's fair to say—do correct me if you think I'm wrong—that most of the policies that were advocated by Trump prior to the election will not be put into practice. There are a few reasons for that – many of them are practically unworkable, or contradictory, o…

This was a rejection of the political establishment, rejection of neo-liberal economics, and a rejection of both the neo-conservative and (to a lesser degree) the libertarian wings of the republican party.

[deleted]

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#924

Post by tormeh »

Confusion wrote: post #325
jernfrost wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can do what the democrats have talked about, which we have successfully done in Nordic countries which is to spend a lot of money on re-educating the workforce and making sure those at the bottom get decent skills. I grew up in a rustbelt like industrial town in Norway. We has shipyards, glass factory, paper mill, textile industry, lock systems etc. Almost all of it got closed down and moved overseas as I grew up…

The Nordic countries have as much problems with right-wing populists as any other country. Not having a job is not the problem. Or at least: having a job does not stop them from voting for right-wing populists.

Our right wing populists are your vanilla republicans. No really.

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#925

Post by atlantic »

SolaceQuantum wrote: post #17

Now that the voices of the disenfranchised blue collar workers have been heard, what actually can be done to help them? I'm less worried about the accusations of racism, etc. because it appears to me a majority are voting because their livelihoods have been lost and, despite economics saying globalization will bring new jobs, they aren't showing up in the critical areas where they are needed. So, what policies can be…

Well, you could roll back globalisation and implement some form of protectionism, which is precisely what Trump has suggested.

Outside the ivory tower of economic models, it does actually make sense. If a country is severely restricted in its capacity to import (an exception being made for raw materials), and has to produce most types of goods itself, then the economy tends to approach something like full employment. Meaning that although overall GDP is not maximised, but everyone has a job, and every industrial sector thrives.

An additional advantage of protectionism is that it would put the brakes on global economic growth, which is the major driver of climate change and ecosystem destruction, but without the side effect of mass unemployment which would be inevitable if free trade remained operative.

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#926

Post by Grishnakh »

stcredzero wrote: post #913
SolaceQuantum wrote: post #17

Now that the voices of the disenfranchised blue collar workers have been heard, what actually can be done to help them? I'm less worried about the accusations of racism, etc. because it appears to me a majority are voting because their livelihoods have been lost and, despite economics saying globalization will bring new jobs, they aren't showing up in the critical areas where they are needed. So, what policies can be…

Now that the voices of the disenfranchised blue collar workers have been heard, what actually can be done to help them? My advice to progressive and left-leaning 20-something, 30-something people in the Bay Area: Stop denigrating that demographic! Donald Trump was a stealth 3rd party candidate, fueled by the dissatisfaction of huge swath of the US public whose fortunes are falling from majority middle class to minori…

What, you don't think deriding them as "deplorables" is a good way to convince them to vote for a more progressive candidate?

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#927

Post by advantark2 »

gaur wrote: post #853
advantark2 wrote: post #621

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>they were racist, sexist, or Islamophobic This is a big issue here, and something that I don't feel that many democrats seem to understand. It wasn't a race issue, it was an immigration issue since many illegal immigrants have taken American jobs. It isn't sexist to acknowledge differences in the genders. It isn't islamophobic to see cultural issues with Islam that would cause integration issues, especially with a l…

> It isn't sexist to acknowledge differences in the genders. You know that is emphatically not the kind of statement that people were concerned with when they were talking about Trump's sexism.

Please tell me then, how is Donald Trump sexist?

*Edit to those who want to downvote me, please reconsider. I am asking a serious question, not trying to argue for no reason.

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#928

Post by serge2k »

pyre wrote: post #560
CWuestefeld wrote: post #313

In an election largely between two epically bad candidates, the outcome fell in the direction I'd felt would be less bad, but in a way that's worse than I'd expected. I had strongly criticized both Clinton and Trump, but felt that in the balance, Clinton was a more dangerous candidate. Seeing how the chips fell, though, I'm even less confident that this was the preferable outcome. There are two key factors leading me…

> And I hope that my Conservative friends who criticized President Obama for overreaches will remain consistent. Unlikely. A majority of people just want to pick a side and rabidly defend it. For example, the democrats contesting the Bush-Gore Florida results was just "sour grapes," but conservatives clamouring to see Obama's "long form" birth certificate to prove that he wasn't eligible for office wasn't?

An insanely close election vs a racist conspiracy theory?

False equivalency.

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#929

Post by binaryabyss »

shoover wrote: post #749
jernfrost wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can do what the democrats have talked about, which we have successfully done in Nordic countries which is to spend a lot of money on re-educating the workforce and making sure those at the bottom get decent skills. I grew up in a rustbelt like industrial town in Norway. We has shipyards, glass factory, paper mill, textile industry, lock systems etc. Almost all of it got closed down and moved overseas as I grew up…

Our government offers free university education, so even less well off blue collar families could send their kids to good schools. And when economic times got harder it never hit blue collar works as hard as in America because we have free universal health care, heavily subsidized childcare, good pensions for everybody. Does your system contain costs on these benefits better than the US, or do you have the inflation…

In the US much of this is supplied by the market, which seeks to increase its profits every year to provide value for stockholders. The government, having no need to profit, is able to provide services to its citizens much more affordably.

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#930

Post by ahartman00 »

sxates wrote: post #753
SolaceQuantum wrote: post #17

Now that the voices of the disenfranchised blue collar workers have been heard, what actually can be done to help them? I'm less worried about the accusations of racism, etc. because it appears to me a majority are voting because their livelihoods have been lost and, despite economics saying globalization will bring new jobs, they aren't showing up in the critical areas where they are needed. So, what policies can be…

Maybe we could subsidize decent health insurance? Raise the minimum wage? Build safety nets and expand social services? Except they just voted against all that.

Minimum wage was very popular.

"Yet voters in Arizona, Colorado, Maine and Washington all look set to approve ballot initiatives raising their states’ minimum wages" http://fivethirtyeight.com/live-blog/2016-election-results-c...

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