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The smug style in American liberalism

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Re: The smug style in American liberalism

#281

Post by AnimalMuppet »

CalChris wrote: post #189
pessimizer wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you say that to your own supporters what you're saying is "I know that some of you don't have as much education as you may have wanted. You're welcome here, and will be listened to." Instead of that, the Democrats ran on "stupid people are mad because they are poor. We smart, enlightened people should make them shut up, and show them that this isn't their country anymore." i.e. "We will herd the poorly educated.…

Yes, you've illustrated how demagogues work. You've even elected one.

Yeah... um... the original article was about smugness among liberals. You might want to think about that.

Re: The smug style in American liberalism

#282

Post by AnimalMuppet »

jessaustin wrote: post #160
gozur88 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sulla was an Optimate.

Hasn't Trump been an "optimate" his entire life?

Yes. But politically, he's running as a populare. This happened in Rome as well - senators would take a populare position on a particular issue, even though they were optimates.

Re: The smug style in American liberalism

#283

Post by xupybd »

artimaeis wrote: post #180
xupybd wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trumps treatment of women in the past makes my skin crawl, as an individual I think his behavior on that count is despicable. But if I were given the option of Hillary or Trump I'd vote Trump. I might be wrong but I've not heard him say anything that is racist. No doubt there are some that are supporting him because they're racist, that doesn't mean all are. On that note I would love someone to prove me wrong and sho…

> "There are issue like abortion, that to me are like the holocaust. I know most don't agree with me on that, and I can understand that they don't see a fetus as a life, I get it. But imagine for a second that you were firmly convinced that a fetus was as much a life as a new born." Okay, so here I am - lifelong progressive Democrat. And I'll open up to this discussion. So, I'm believing that at the moment of concept…

I think if the mothers life is at risk the doctor has to make the call on who to save. Sometimes this has to happen. I'd compare it to triage, docotors sometimes have to make a call that means one person lives and another dies. I have no issue with this as long as they recognise both lives and make judgments based on that.

Re: The smug style in American liberalism

#284

Post by silverbax88 »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #268
silverbax88 wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait, what? He ran on fixing the economy (done), ending the war in Iraq (done), restoring our relationship with the rest of the world (done), universal health care (done) and improving the acceptance of minority groups (somewhat done - at least the LGBT community). Illegal immigration is down, unemployment is down, crime is down. There are definitely things Obama hasn't done, but he absolutely delivered change, and h…

> Wait, what? He ran on fixing the economy (done)... Not really. It's not at the point of collapse, but it sure wasn't a normal recovery. It's better than 2008, but it's still broken in some very real ways. > ... ending the war in Iraq (done)... Sort of. The battle for Mosul was in the news just last week, with US involvement. > ... restoring our relationship with the rest of the world (done)... Russia is fighting ag…

That's what I mean about having some issues. I would have liked to see healthcare be more sweeping, better implemented.

But the 'normal' recovery? What does a 'normal' recovery look like when the global economy is on the brink of collapse, and the US has run up a deficit never seen before? The Great Depression needed a World War to finally pull the US back to recovery.

Re: The smug style in American liberalism

#285

Post by talmand »

iainmerrick wrote: post #252
talmand wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a feedback loop that started because of government intervention in the free market and it continues simply because of government intervention in the free market. There are many examples of this, such as your broadband and mobile phone markets, and university tuition loans.

Well, hang on now, wouldn't you agree that the free market has sometimes left us stuck with cartels and monopolies? (In the US, look at the railroads and telephone network.) Sometimes you need regulations to break out of those traps.

Yes, there are examples of the free market creating monopolies. This is even more possible today than years past. But in those examples I'm willing to bet the only way they are maintained is from the assistance of government.

Sometimes it is good thing, I admit, but in most cases it is not consumer friendly.

Re: The smug style in American liberalism

#286

Post by silverbax88 »

rorykoehler wrote: post #242
silverbax88 wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait, what? He ran on fixing the economy (done), ending the war in Iraq (done), restoring our relationship with the rest of the world (done), universal health care (done) and improving the acceptance of minority groups (somewhat done - at least the LGBT community). Illegal immigration is down, unemployment is down, crime is down. There are definitely things Obama hasn't done, but he absolutely delivered change, and h…

Ending the war? He has escalated on all fronts and opened new ones too. Obama talks a good game but under it all is more surveillance, more economic inequality and more violence.

Escalating on all fronts? Please elaborate how getting the US out of a major war has done that. I certainly won't claim that Obama's foreign policy is golden, but it was said 'empire'...which would mean invading and occupying all over the globe. Obama isn't even close to the imperialist policies we had under Bush.

Re: The smug style in American liberalism

#287

Post by xupybd »

unprepare wrote: post #125
xupybd wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is one of the things I don't understand about modern politics, morally conservative always seem to go towards extreme capitalism and morally progressives tend to go towards socialism. Personally I'm more middle of the road on socialism VS capitalism. But I tend to vote and align with parties on their moral stance. Even though Trump appears to have a crappy personal Moral standard his policies at least align more…

>here are actually themes in the Bible that talk about a "worker deserving his wage", and "if a man doesn't work he doesn't eat". wow some fantastic turns of logic you are using. Christian means Christ-like. did Christ preach social darwinism, or did he spend his time with prostitutes and lepers? Did Christ preach having the poor fend for themselves, or did he feed the hungry? Did Christ praise the wealthy, or does h…

Those were actual quotes from the bible. I'm not sure how that's a u turn in logic?

Re: The smug style in American liberalism

#288

Post by talmand »

andrewvc wrote: post #259
talmand wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm forgetting the details; can you explain how the birther movement, no matter how stupid, was about race?

Read this: http://observer.com/2016/09/colin-powell-is-right-birtherism...

I see nothing in that article that shows the birther movement (again, no matter how stupid) was based on racial reasons, other than certain people's opinions that it did.

Re: The smug style in American liberalism

#289

Post by lamontcg »

This was a bit TL;DR.

I think a better summary is that "liberal elites" (although really moderate republicans) has conclusively failed. And it lost in 2000 and 2004 and this is a pattern of it failing.

And the problems are that they've completely lost the blue collar male vote. There's no labor party here in the US at all. And the problem goes all the way back to Bill's vote for NAFTA and his center-right policies. The Democratic party has been losing the actual working class ever since then.

The Democratic Party should really stop lecturing the working class, and start promising the working class that they'll have jobs and won't see their kids sent off to die in foreign wars.

Re: The smug style in American liberalism

#290

Post by snsr »

BakaRakuda wrote: post #78
ant6n wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Huffpost did a round-up: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/donald-trump-racist-exam... For example there were proposals to not allow Muslims to immigrate to the US. There was calling Mexicans 'criminals' and 'rapists'. Beating of black people at Trump rallies (which he endorsed). This shows up this night on my twitter feed: "I am at a Trump rally in Manhattan, and thousands are chanting 'We hate Muslims, we hat…

That twitter thing you just linked, did you read the replies under it? I'm not 100% sure of the context. But it looks like it's fake. @SRowntreeNews @WALTBACON Dude that's a fake account. Don't RT that garbage. @aobrien7 good catch, thanks @SRowntreeNews This is fake, @michaeldweiss. Part of disinfo network spreading false rumors. They were very active during Euro soccer riots. -- If thats case aren't you just perpet…

> If thats case aren't you just perpetuating a narrative about Trump supporters being a bunch of racist bigots

You are though.

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