Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Donald Trump Is Elected President

nytimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

641–650 of 1001 posts

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#641

Post by chillacy »

acbabis wrote: post #604
fivedogit wrote: post #548

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Exit polls seem to suggest that plenty of people understated their support for Trump This is incorrect. People stated their support. Poll models just underestimated how many of them would vote.

But I thought Hillary was leading in polls. Also, how would you know how many people lied in the polls?

Pollsters weight responses by demographic and then multiply by the expected turnout of that demographic. They messed up the expected turnout on trump supporters: his supporters were more enthusiastic to vote.

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#642

Post by advantark2 »

knz wrote: post #635
advantark2 wrote: post #621

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>they were racist, sexist, or Islamophobic This is a big issue here, and something that I don't feel that many democrats seem to understand. It wasn't a race issue, it was an immigration issue since many illegal immigrants have taken American jobs. It isn't sexist to acknowledge differences in the genders. It isn't islamophobic to see cultural issues with Islam that would cause integration issues, especially with a l…

> It wasn't a race issue, it was an immigration issue since many illegal immigrants have taken American jobs. I don't disagree with your point but how many "hard working" Americans want to work the fields and kitchens of the country for low wages? What impact is the removal of cheap labour going to have on the cost of food?

It looks like food prices would go up by about 16%[0], which I would be happy with if I knew that people were getting a fair wage for the labor. If there's a shortage of workers willing to work at such a low wage, then they need to raise wages.

[0]http://www.businessinsider.com/cost-deporting-undocumented-i...

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#643

Post by vec »

micaksica wrote: post #246
stefs wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

reddit user TPKM's comment on the sanders-would-have-won-thread: "Support for Trump, much like Brexit, was based upon an extremely widespread feeling that average people are not getting their fair share of the benefits of globalisation. This is neither a specifically Democrat or Republican problem, and people have been saying it one way or another for years. It was also the foundation of Sanders' campaign. The differ…

> curbing immigration is an actual solution to the problem. Curbing immigration won't be a solution to the problem; it's just a highly visible one. Each immigrant that is looking for a job in the US is taking one away from the supply for an American. That is how the Trumpistas see things. Economically, sure, that's true. The immigrants take jobs from the labor supply. What people don't see is that aside from ones on…

> Economically, sure, that's true. The immigrants take jobs from the labor supply.

That's not actually true, though. Every immigrant who comes here and becomes employed is, of course, filling a slot that is no longer available to a native-born citizen. However, he or she will also be one more person who needs to be fed, clothed, housed, entertained, protected, and supported. All of those create demand that adds up to substantially more than one job (about 1.2, to be exact [1]).

If there's one thing I'm taking away from this campaign and election, it's that people have big problems reasoning about systems where costs are acute and centralized and benefits are diffuse, even if on the whole they personally benefit substantially from those systems. This seems true for immigration, for climate change, for free trade, for healthcare reform.

[1] http://www.nber.org/papers/w21123

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#644

Post by yolesaber »

micahbright wrote: post #103
yolesaber wrote: post #43

I'd argue you are clueless. Trump has been sued several times for the discrimination against black people, he fired black people from his casinos and moved them to the back, he INSISTS TO THIS DAY that the Central Park Five are guilty despite DNA evidence, he jokes and also brags about literally molesting women. People like you disgust me. Stop acting like his words and actions don't matter.

>Trump has been sued several times for the discrimination against black people That may say more about black people than it says about Trump. Call me a racist - I dare you.

You're a racist. Read the facts: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/28/us/politics/donald-trump-h...

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#645

Post by deadringerr »

Nadya wrote: post #622
deadringerr wrote: post #453

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like your points, I do think this is a big piece of the picture. I almost wish the polls let you vote either "for" a candidate or directly "against" a particular candidate - I think we'd see that many of the Trump voters would have preferred to vote "against" Clinton rather than "for" Trump.

>I think we'd see that many of the Trump voters would have preferred to vote "against" Clinton rather than "for" Trump. That's an odd statement to make because many Clinton voters would have also preferred to vote "against" Clinton rather than "for" Clinton.* They were part of the "Never Trump" crowd. Not pro-Hillary but very anti-Trump. E: Typo, apologies I didn't catch it before my post delay ran out. `"for" Trump`…

I think I see what you're saying, though you might have meant that those who voted "for" Clinton would have rather voted "against" Trump. It's true, all variations would see votes and I think that would speak better to who actually had a larger base of people truly voting "for" the message of a candidate.

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#646

Post by kin »

blakeyrat wrote: post #294
SolaceQuantum wrote: post #17

Now that the voices of the disenfranchised blue collar workers have been heard, what actually can be done to help them? I'm less worried about the accusations of racism, etc. because it appears to me a majority are voting because their livelihoods have been lost and, despite economics saying globalization will bring new jobs, they aren't showing up in the critical areas where they are needed. So, what policies can be…

I live in a relatively small suburb of Seattle. I'm a software developer. There are no jobs for me where I live. None. None within 20 miles. The only job for me is in Seattle or Bellevue or Redmond, an hour-long commute. I love where I live, and I don't want to live in Seattle (which I could barely afford anyway-- I like owning a house). I also don't want to exclusively work-from-home and be cut-off socially from my…

As a fellow software developer, you do bring up a good point and I agree with you, but I think he's referring to more blue collar jobs. We have white collar jobs and are pretty well off. You have a job and own a home which is far more than what it sounds like the rust belt that voted for Trump has.

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#647

Post by knz »

sodafountan wrote: post #638
ajross wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In all honesty: almost none. He just wanted to be president. Most of his time will be spend enriching himself by selling banal access and bloviating on the world stage. That's pretty awful, but not apocalypse-level awful. Of your list: The wall is a technical impossibility that everyone can recognize. There's no funding for a deportation force and the political optics of goon squads rounding people up is something co…

I don't think you understand how ego works. He wants to be more than just president, he wants to be a great president, that's in his nature. I truly believe he'll do what it takes to make himself into a great president. Do you think he wants to be remembered more as a George W. Bush or a Ronald Reagan? I'm about as worried about a Trump presidency as I am worried that I'll remember how to breath at night. Human Natur…

And yet millions of Americans have a lot of anxiety about what a Trump presidency will bring because of the colour of their skin, the religion they practice, or the gender of the person they love.

If Trump wants to be remembered as a great President then he needs to step up and address these fears.

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#648

Post by hourislate »

commenting wrote: post #154
hourislate wrote: post #62

I can't help but think how this election will look tame in comparison to what is to come. AI and Automation will continue to savage employment. Environment will continue to degrade. Millions of more in America and around the world will feel like they have been left behind. Where do we go from here?

Indeed, and with regards to the environment, it's particularly worrying that Trump intends to reverse all the progress made so far in the US on addressing climate change. (Though to be honest, that's one of my lesser worries concerning a Trump presidency. Along with increasing discrimination and divisiveness within the US, it's likely his proposed foreign policy changes will enable Putin to annex further regions of E…

Lets hope that it was all talk and he still believes in encouraging Freedom and Democracy around the world.

It is terrifying to consider the message he would send to Putin and other Dictators if he carried through on his foreign policy changes.

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#649

Post by ltorresv »

DominikR wrote: post #596
huac wrote: post #109

I have a lot of thoughts, but here's one: Hillary focused her entire campaign on why people should stop Trump, at the expense of talking about why she should be president. In general, making the case against someone else rather than the affirmative case for yourself doesn't work. It's reaction versus action. It's undoubtably true now that there was a very real populist anger towards the existing political order, and…

This is true, she didn't make a strong positive case for what her policies would look like. And if she did then she didn't spend her time effectively trying to convey this. (can't actually remember even a single policy of hers except for easier abortions and confrontation with Russia over Syria) But what I feel is problematic is that Trump was painted as some kind of Hitler, which is ludicrous if you spent a few hour…

I remember the leaks mentioned something about reinforcing the "Trump = Hitler" idea.

This was all manufactured by the DNC and it didn't work. I wouldn't be surprised if they're currently planning ways to disrupt Trumps inauguration or other events during the next 4 years to see if he snaps and they can use that as ammo for the next election.

At the end of the day it's politics and playing dirty is expected but now that one side has been exposed it's hard to brush it off thinking everybody does it.

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#650

Post by criddell »

huac wrote: post #337
criddell wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Hillary focused her entire campaign on why people should stop Trump, at the expense of talking about why she should be president. I couldn't disagree more. This campaign was all about emotion, not rationality. Apparently facts don't matter and that's very hard to deal with.

There are emotional and rational ways to make any particular argument. She just chose to focus on arguments that only her staffers care about, rather than appealing to the (obviously) very real populist energy and anger. Facts do matter, and I think it's disingenuous to really argue that they don't, even to the American electorate. I think the overriding truth is that politics is about engagement, and it's a battle -…

> Facts do matter, and I think it's disingenuous to really argue that they don't, even to the American electorate.

Facts matter, but emotion matters more. Foe example, some Trump supporters believe that parts of the US are now governed by Sharia law. The fact is wrong, but the underlying fear and racism is real and so much more powerful. The fact doesn't really matter.

Post reply on HN