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“DRM is Used to Lock in, Control and Spy on Users”

torrentfreak.com

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Re: “DRM is Used to Lock in, Control and Spy on Users”

#31

Post by syshum »

falcolas wrote: post #19
syshum wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>disrespect the right of the authors to get a fair share for their work. Because there is no right or "fair share". Creators have only the right to ask for money for their works, they have no right to compensation at all. Further from an American Legal perspective there is no "choice is between authors not getting paid and freedom of expression" the constitutional reason for copyright, patent and trademark is to pro…

> Creators have only the right to ask for money for their works, they have no right to compensation at all. Similarly, we as consumers have no inherit right to view or use their work without paying the creator's asking price. Nor do we have the right to force the creators to create work. IOW, the only way to really motivate creators to create is to compensate them somehow (money works great). Capitalism at work.

>>we as consumers have no inherit right to view

So if I am walking past a home and they happen to be playing a movie I do not own I some how "owe" the created monetary compensation?

> use their work without paying the creator's asking price.

that depends on how you define use, I do not believe a content creator has the ethical authority to tell me how I can or can not arrange the bits on my computer system, or what order I am allowed to write words on paper I own.

I dont believe a creator should be allowed to use government violence or the threat of government violence to prevent me from downloading instructions from a website that directs my computer to store a series of 1 of 0's in a manner that a translation program can then direct my display to light led's in a specific pattern that many brain will recognize and accept as entertainment

They have the right to ask me to voluntary give them money in exchange for them recording how the computer should store these 1 and 0's but to make it illegal for me to copy this pattern is where I draw the line.

Re: “DRM is Used to Lock in, Control and Spy on Users”

#32

Post by tedunangst »

syshum wrote: post #31
falcolas wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Creators have only the right to ask for money for their works, they have no right to compensation at all. Similarly, we as consumers have no inherit right to view or use their work without paying the creator's asking price. Nor do we have the right to force the creators to create work. IOW, the only way to really motivate creators to create is to compensate them somehow (money works great). Capitalism at work.

>>we as consumers have no inherit right to view So if I am walking past a home and they happen to be playing a movie I do not own I some how "owe" the created monetary compensation? > use their work without paying the creator's asking price. that depends on how you define use, I do not believe a content creator has the ethical authority to tell me how I can or can not arrange the bits on my computer system, or what o…

If you walk by my house and you're peeping in my window to watch my movie, I can pull the curtains and you don't have the right to demand I open them.

Re: “DRM is Used to Lock in, Control and Spy on Users”

#33

Post by syshum »

falcolas wrote: post #29
wolfgke wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you want to consume the content, you pay the content creator in their currency of choice (be it github stars, their name immortalized in an attribution clause, or cash). I consider doing this as a gesture of politeness, but nothing that should be enforced by violence.

> I consider doing this as a gesture of politeness I disagree. The rights of a content creator are, after all, enshrined in the constitution. That's a bit more than "being polite". That said, the right of the public to have access after a defined period of time is also enshrined, so that does need to be taken into account. > nothing that should be enforced by violence Thats quite the jump - violence? I'm going to mak…

>> I'm going to make the assumption that you're referring to the idea that no law should be made that you aren't willing to resort to violence to support.

All laws are enforced by violence, that is what makes them law.

Law is force, Force is violence. Every law, from Jay Walking, to First Degree Murder is based by the threat that an armed agent from the government will enforce that rule upon you.

Re: “DRM is Used to Lock in, Control and Spy on Users”

#34

Post by syshum »

tedunangst wrote: post #32
syshum wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>we as consumers have no inherit right to view So if I am walking past a home and they happen to be playing a movie I do not own I some how "owe" the created monetary compensation? > use their work without paying the creator's asking price. that depends on how you define use, I do not believe a content creator has the ethical authority to tell me how I can or can not arrange the bits on my computer system, or what o…

If you walk by my house and you're peeping in my window to watch my movie, I can pull the curtains and you don't have the right to demand I open them.

And that has nothing to with if I owe the creator of the movie monetary compensation because of "viewed" the movie

Re: “DRM is Used to Lock in, Control and Spy on Users”

#35

Post by falcolas »

syshum wrote: post #33
falcolas wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I consider doing this as a gesture of politeness I disagree. The rights of a content creator are, after all, enshrined in the constitution. That's a bit more than "being polite". That said, the right of the public to have access after a defined period of time is also enshrined, so that does need to be taken into account. > nothing that should be enforced by violence Thats quite the jump - violence? I'm going to mak…

>> I'm going to make the assumption that you're referring to the idea that no law should be made that you aren't willing to resort to violence to support. All laws are enforced by violence, that is what makes them law. Law is force, Force is violence. Every law, from Jay Walking, to First Degree Murder is based by the threat that an armed agent from the government will enforce that rule upon you.

> Law is force

Not really - a law is a codification of desired human behavior.

> an armed agent from the government will enforce that rule upon you.

This is definitely at the extreme end of the list of possibilities. The enforcement of those laws can take any number of forms, but most do not involve armed agents. Most involve certified letters and negotiations between lawyers in front of an (unarmed) judge. This is especially true when we're discussing copyright (with the occasional exception proving the rule). Even speeding tickets are handled more and more frequently by mail.

Armed agents are typically reserved for cases where harm to either a body or a property are possible.

Re: “DRM is Used to Lock in, Control and Spy on Users”

#36

Post by pessimizer »

falcolas wrote: post #35
syshum wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> I'm going to make the assumption that you're referring to the idea that no law should be made that you aren't willing to resort to violence to support. All laws are enforced by violence, that is what makes them law. Law is force, Force is violence. Every law, from Jay Walking, to First Degree Murder is based by the threat that an armed agent from the government will enforce that rule upon you.

> Law is force Not really - a law is a codification of desired human behavior. > an armed agent from the government will enforce that rule upon you. This is definitely at the extreme end of the list of possibilities. The enforcement of those laws can take any number of forms, but most do not involve armed agents. Most involve certified letters and negotiations between lawyers in front of an (unarmed) judge. This is e…

> Not really - a law is a codification of desired human behavior.

No, that's a standard.

> This is definitely at the extreme end of the list of possibilities.

No, it's in the middle of the inevitable steps of escalation. A speeding ticket becomes an armed agent hitting you with a stick and jail time if you wait long enough. As does a court judgment over an illegally downloaded song.

Re: “DRM is Used to Lock in, Control and Spy on Users”

#37

Post by syshum »

falcolas wrote: post #35
syshum wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> I'm going to make the assumption that you're referring to the idea that no law should be made that you aren't willing to resort to violence to support. All laws are enforced by violence, that is what makes them law. Law is force, Force is violence. Every law, from Jay Walking, to First Degree Murder is based by the threat that an armed agent from the government will enforce that rule upon you.

> Law is force Not really - a law is a codification of desired human behavior. > an armed agent from the government will enforce that rule upon you. This is definitely at the extreme end of the list of possibilities. The enforcement of those laws can take any number of forms, but most do not involve armed agents. Most involve certified letters and negotiations between lawyers in front of an (unarmed) judge. This is e…

Clearly you are not in the United States...

>>Most involve certified letters and negotiations between lawyers in front of an (unarmed) judge.

While the judge himself may be unarmed, he has armed protection often several armed protectors at the ready.

And if you ignore the commandment of the judge he/she has no problem ordering those armed agent to bring violence upon you to compel your obedience

Re: “DRM is Used to Lock in, Control and Spy on Users”

#38

Post by yuhong »

eveningcoffee wrote: post #2

Interestingly copyright industry has grown to be one of the greatest enemies of the democracy and freedom of speech. I think that the shame is shared though as too many people started to disrespect the right of the authors to get a fair share for their work. It still does not follow that we should prefer rights of the authors over more general civil rights. If the choice is between authors not getting paid and freedo…

I have been thinking of why this happened. I wonder what would have happened if DAT was invented before the record industry consolidated in the 1970s for example.

Re: “DRM is Used to Lock in, Control and Spy on Users”

#39

Post by criddell »

shmerl wrote: post #30

Indeed it is. But somehow the push to reform DMCA and repeal 1201 isn't strong enough. Why would anyone sensible (besides corrupted control freaks who designed that) not stand against this garbage?

I think their argument would be stronger if DRM opponents were more specific when talking about harms.

For example, DRM is used to spy on users. The article notes that DRM'd software can maintain a connection with a server and user actions are reported and recorded on the server. They need to go one step further and explain why this is bad and list some of the real damage that has caused.

If they don't, it sounds more hypothetical and people just aren't going to get all that bothered by it.

Re: “DRM is Used to Lock in, Control and Spy on Users”

#40

Post by falcolas »

pessimizer wrote: post #36
falcolas wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Law is force Not really - a law is a codification of desired human behavior. > an armed agent from the government will enforce that rule upon you. This is definitely at the extreme end of the list of possibilities. The enforcement of those laws can take any number of forms, but most do not involve armed agents. Most involve certified letters and negotiations between lawyers in front of an (unarmed) judge. This is e…

> Not really - a law is a codification of desired human behavior. No, that's a standard. > This is definitely at the extreme end of the list of possibilities. No, it's in the middle of the inevitable steps of escalation. A speeding ticket becomes an armed agent hitting you with a stick and jail time if you wait long enough. As does a court judgment over an illegally downloaded song.

> becomes an armed agent hitting you with a stick and jail time if you wait long enough

At which point you've broken a separate law, and have been held in contempt of court. Ditto the copyright infringement example.

If you break the law, and then willfully break the law again, you can't expect to be treated with leniency.

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