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Donald Trump Is Elected President

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Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#511

Now that the voices of the disenfranchised blue collar workers have been heard, what actually can be done to help them? I'm less worried about the accusations of racism, etc. because it appears to me a majority are voting because their livelihoods have been lost and, despite economics saying globalization will bring new jobs, they aren't showing up in the critical areas where they are needed. So, what policies can be…

I don't know either.

1. I think degruglation in a lot of industries might help this demographic. I think his administration will make doing things in this society easier. My hope is his administration makes building that house easier. (I hope he come down hard on these little town/counties--that make doing anything complicated/expensive.). My hope is his administration will lift restrictions on the little guy. A lot of hope.

2. That's it, "I don't know either".

I do know the current status quo was unacceptable for a lot of "disenfranchised blue collar" workers. I'd be careful with the "blue collar" label. The typical IT guy is a blue collar worker. Most people in tech are just a body. It's a profession that doesn't have a huge barrier to entry; just like a lot of blue collar workers. It becomes so true once you hit 35. "On to the next self-taught young, hungry person." The eletism in this current, oh so changing industry, is hard to take some days. Every one of you should be saving money. The party doesn't last long. I'll get heat for this; I know too many former Programmers that are literally homeless.

3. My hope is if things don't get better, it's only four years. My hope is the senate, and house become democratic. We then vote for someone like, a less liberal Bernie Sanders. (This is my biggest hope.)

4. I'm leary much will change because money will still control politics. Keep up the heat Wikileaks.

5. So--we will see.

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#512

So, I voted for DJT (I like calling him that, for some reason). I didn't vote for him because I agreed with any of his policies (as best I can tell he never actually presented any during the course of his campaign) or because I thought he was the best representative for the people of this country. I did so for a couple of reasons: 1. I like a good underdog story. The people that support him, for a multitude of reason…

> winning that would bring about the biggest amount of disruption and change This is an interesting point. I've toyed with the notion lately that maybe the American political system is "antifragile"[0]. It's plausible, at least, to me that the system as a whole is stronger when it receives major shocks that disrupt the ossified structure in there. If you have the same politicians with the same policies as normal, the…

I think there is probably some truth to the antifragile theory, but we should remember that the system is made up of individual people and their choices to act within that system. Too many rogue players and there is no system.

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#513

I think the election of Trump is also a backslash against the PC, SJW, safe-space, trigger-warning, micro aggression tendencies that have been spreading in the U.S. for the last couple of years. This has become too much and millions of Americans are fed up with it, they have now spoken out.

How else can a bunch of very different people work together and be productive together without some level of decorum and safety? So, we get rid of 'political correctness' (i.e. respectfulness), and what then? Many people don't like their co-worker's or neighbor's personal beliefs or behaviors. I can't see that letting people be persecuted openly will end well or fruitfully for anyone. Addendum: It's interesting that…

>How else can a bunch of very different people work together and be productive together without some level of decorum and safety? So, we get rid of 'political correctness' (i.e. respectfulness), and what then?

Live and let live.

(Which is exactly what "safe spaces" and "check your privilege" and the political correctness under threat of ostracism _isn't_.)

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#514

Now that the voices of the disenfranchised blue collar workers have been heard, what actually can be done to help them? I'm less worried about the accusations of racism, etc. because it appears to me a majority are voting because their livelihoods have been lost and, despite economics saying globalization will bring new jobs, they aren't showing up in the critical areas where they are needed. So, what policies can be…

The payoffs to education are huge [0]. People need to be prepared for the new economy which requires college degrees and has fewer low-skill jobs.

The left laid the groundwork for Trump's victory (assuming Blue color Whites are really the cause, I think it's not the only factor myself) by promoting the idea that the new economy is unfair. Of course they mainly meant unfair to blacks and hispanics but whites got the message anyway.

If we want to help people thrive in capitalism, we need to avoid leftist narratives that are wrong, i.e. the narrative that education won't improve one's situation because capitalism always screws the little guy.

[0] http://inequality.stanford.edu/publications/20-facts-about-u...

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#515

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the crux of why Trump's pandering to them was total bullshit. He can't do anything to help them because the jobs that left aren't coming back. In four years they will be in the same position they are now but they wont have a black man or a Democrat to blame for it and so they wont be quite as bitter about it.

Considering that so many of Trump's promises are infeasible, I'm wondering what Trump will actually do in office.

The same he always does: Blaming things on others. This is what worries me the most: Trump won't get anything done but blame it, yet again, on some minority. And, yet again, chances are people will believe him.

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#516

Now that the voices of the disenfranchised blue collar workers have been heard, what actually can be done to help them? I'm less worried about the accusations of racism, etc. because it appears to me a majority are voting because their livelihoods have been lost and, despite economics saying globalization will bring new jobs, they aren't showing up in the critical areas where they are needed. So, what policies can be…

You can do what the democrats have talked about, which we have successfully done in Nordic countries which is to spend a lot of money on re-educating the workforce and making sure those at the bottom get decent skills. I grew up in a rustbelt like industrial town in Norway. We has shipyards, glass factory, paper mill, textile industry, lock systems etc. Almost all of it got closed down and moved overseas as I grew up…

This is all right on, but I would add one important point. Which is that some people cannot be retrained. It's the rare fifty year old who can adapt to a whole new field, learn all the theory and practice all the application, and then successfully compete against people half his age to land those entry-level jobs.

If our economic system puts people in such a position through no fault of their own and they cannot escape it despite their best efforts, they need to be taken care of, for life if need be.

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#517

He got elected on all these promises. 1- Build the wall and make Mexico pay for it 2- Deportation Force on day one 3- Repeal obamacare 4- Renegotiate NAFTA 5- Bring back coal 6- Reduce taxes for the rich 7- Ban muslims 8- Prosecuting Hillary Clinton 9- Bring back American companies to the USA 10- Etc. The Senate and the House are Republicans and the Supreme court will lean republican after his appointment. What do yo…

All but maybe #5 and #8 require legislation and thus the cooperation of congress (including 60 votes in the Senate to defeat a potential Democrat filibuster). My view is that the most important job of the President is to ensure the effective functioning of the executive branch agencies. This involves selecting good department heads and pursuing effective policies through the exercise of discretion in rule-making and…

After further reflection on his election night cabinet announcements, I'll add #4: he nominates "the best people," i.e. individuals selected on the basis of their public notoriety or prior fealty to his organization rather than their expertise or political leanings. This causes a delegation within the agencies to lower-level administrators and career personnel and some blend of the outcomes in scenario 1 and 2.

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#518
post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

:) The internet has been such a nasty place today and, similarly to the day of the Paris attacks, it's been really nice to find reasonably moderate discourse on HN. As... curious as I personally find America's choices in presidency, I'm just as ashamed of some of my follower feeds on various social media. Seriously guys, don't demonize people, especially by association. Refusing to hear your political opponents out i…

It's tough. I've been trying to find a pen pal who can give me some reasonable arguments for Donald Trump for the last few weeks, to no avail. Not living in the US, I don't really meet people who support Donald Trump. I'm probably living in a bubble, which isn't a great feeling--but at the same time, it's hard to credit the democratic process when you can't understand the alternative view. No doubt this is a symptom…

Try this from Michael Moore:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pADHLsECWxY

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#519
post #406

I doubt that, by consistently saying the same thing, anyone can be right for 24 years. The world changes; what is right 24 years ago may not be right today, and vice versa.

Equal rights for people regardless of race, creed or gender identity is going to be right for a hell of a lot longer than 24 years. The reality of class struggle is going to be right for a lot longer than 24 years.

"Equal rights for people regardless of race, creed or gender identity" is not a Bernie exclusive. You do not win elections by being right (if you need proof, look at current events). Sometimes, being too absolutely right, and not in sync with the times, makes you lose elections to someone who is very wrong. That is what I mean by saying that you cannot be consistently right for 24 years: the timing of your message also has to be right.

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#520
post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can think of several things, from cultural long term changes, rhetoric and acknowledge of human struggle, to smaller changes on the local level. We could start by not calling them privileged, demeaning them in their struggle. Acknowledging peoples struggle in life is often the first step in helping a demographic, be that women, black, white, immigrant, American born, or what have you. As cultural changes, one would…

I don't know about this one. I'm able-bodied and have 0 problems with being called privileged for being able bodied. I can hear well, I can see fine, I don't need any machines or devices to help me move around. In this respect I'm very privileged. I don't feel like I'm being demeaned by acknowledging this. It is actually to me acknowledging that other people struggle in ways that I do not. Similarly, I struggle to se…

Because words are supposed to have their specific, well-understood meaning. By your logic, a guy with one arm and one leg is privileged too; there are certainly people out there that have it much worse than him.

My (laymen's) understanding of the word 'privilege' was always more along the line of "Mozart was his piano teacher". But it looks like at some point the word was redefined to some incredibly technical meaning whereby a broke--but white, and male--coal miner is also privileged.

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