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Donald Trump Is Elected President

nytimes.com

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Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#501

Post by dang »

jernfrost wrote: post #315
dang wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People like you disgust me. You can't comment like this on HN, regardless of how right you are and how strongly you feel. Personal attacks in particular are not ok. Comments need to get more civil as the topic grows more contentious, or else our hope of substantive discussion goes up in flames. We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12911145 and marked it off-topic.

He did not attack specific people or clearly identifiable subgroups or minorities. He attacked a broad category of people for holding certain views. I think that is well within what is acceptable in online debate. If you are going to attack this argument, then you might as well say it is unacceptable to call people who favor cutting off hands of thieves for barbaric. Sure you characterize people with a mean word "bar…

> well within what is acceptable in online debate.

I don't know about 'online debate', but "People like you disgust me" is not acceptable on HN. Indeed it's well below the minimum acceptable, so this ought to be obvious.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

https://news.ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#502

Post by 1024core »

greenshackle2 wrote: post #311
gthtjtkt wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> at the expense of talking about why she should be president. Hillary couldn't make that argument because it would've drawn more attention to her most damning flaw: The fact that she's a textbook demagogue who was on the wrong side of every progressive issue until she found it politically expedient to "evolve". That's why so many people were so passionate about Sanders. You could go back to C-SPAN videos from 1992 a…

Having the same opinion for 24 years is not a virtue. In the (probably apocryphal) words of Keynes: > When someone persuades me that I am wrong, I change my mind. What do you do? It's not a sign of vice either; I'm sure he's been believing that the Earth is round for 24+ years, and that's fine. What matters is accuracy, and updating in the face of new evidence, not consistency . Consistency in the face of new evidenc…

> Having the same opinion for 24 years is not a virtue.

You are deliberately misinterpreting the statement. Of course having the same opinion for 24 years by itself is not a virtue! The point is: he has had the same public stance on things that matter : gay marriage, healthcare, etc. In today's climate, when politicians change their views based on the most recent polling, this is indeed a virtue.

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#503

Post by [deleted] »

DavajDavaj wrote: post #95

I think the election of Trump is also a backslash against the PC, SJW, safe-space, trigger-warning, micro aggression tendencies that have been spreading in the U.S. for the last couple of years. This has become too much and millions of Americans are fed up with it, they have now spoken out.

[deleted]

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#504

Post by jarnix »

huac wrote: post #109

I have a lot of thoughts, but here's one: Hillary focused her entire campaign on why people should stop Trump, at the expense of talking about why she should be president. In general, making the case against someone else rather than the affirmative case for yourself doesn't work. It's reaction versus action. It's undoubtably true now that there was a very real populist anger towards the existing political order, and…

It's not entirely true. During the previous elections in France, people voted against Sarkozy, they did not vote for François Hollande.

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#505

Post by AlexB138 »

mitchpron wrote: post #94
SolaceQuantum wrote: post #17

Now that the voices of the disenfranchised blue collar workers have been heard, what actually can be done to help them? I'm less worried about the accusations of racism, etc. because it appears to me a majority are voting because their livelihoods have been lost and, despite economics saying globalization will bring new jobs, they aren't showing up in the critical areas where they are needed. So, what policies can be…

Education. It's what Obama was emphasizing his entire presidency. Those jobs are never coming back, and even more are going to be automated. The education gap between rich and poor (and white and minority) is getting larger because of hoodlum-fearing mothers who support segregated neighborhoods and schools. Plus the poor-parent schools stay poor and the rich-parent schools stay rich. All of these factors together (wh…

> The education gap between rich and poor (and white and minority) is getting larger because of hoodlum-fearing mothers who support segregated neighborhoods and schools.

I see this brought up a lot, as if those mothers are pearl clutching villains. Are you of the impression that hoodlums don't exist, or that they're not more common in poor communities? Or do you just take exception with people wanting what is best for their own children, at the expense of others? What argument would you make to those mothers that would convince them it is in their, or their children's, best interest to not seclude themselves away from poorer populations?

Just to make it a bit clearer, this smacks of the exact same kind of thinking that was just dealt a blow in the election. Selfishness is human nature, and shaming people over it might make them quiet, but it won't make them agree with you.

I'm far from a Trump supporter, but this kind of constant holier-than-thou thinking has to end or there will never be any semblance of unity in this country.

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#506

Post by [deleted] »

ap22213 wrote: post #324
DavajDavaj wrote: post #95

I think the election of Trump is also a backslash against the PC, SJW, safe-space, trigger-warning, micro aggression tendencies that have been spreading in the U.S. for the last couple of years. This has become too much and millions of Americans are fed up with it, they have now spoken out.

How else can a bunch of very different people work together and be productive together without some level of decorum and safety? So, we get rid of 'political correctness' (i.e. respectfulness), and what then? Many people don't like their co-worker's or neighbor's personal beliefs or behaviors. I can't see that letting people be persecuted openly will end well or fruitfully for anyone. Addendum: It's interesting that…

[deleted]

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#507

Post by blocktuw »

venomsnake wrote: post #170
SolaceQuantum wrote: post #17

Now that the voices of the disenfranchised blue collar workers have been heard, what actually can be done to help them? I'm less worried about the accusations of racism, etc. because it appears to me a majority are voting because their livelihoods have been lost and, despite economics saying globalization will bring new jobs, they aren't showing up in the critical areas where they are needed. So, what policies can be…

Solar, wind, repairing of roads and bridges and building and tightening of low skill immigration. There is a load of blue collar work that can (and urgently needs to) be done in USA. Building a single wind turbine are dollars for R&D, truckers, manufacturers, maintainers, people that install and pour concrete, electricians, miners and so on ... And also maintaining and repairing the old stuff. The North Dakota oil bo…

I thought we would get an infrastructure boom from Obama during the Great Recession. We went through 2 huge rounds of spending that mostly went to "shovel ready" projects. From my understanding, today's construction budgets are tied up in capital costs like heavy machinery and materials. There isn't much need for labor anymore with automation and specialized equipment.

There is also the issue of planning out infrastructure improvements. With environmental reviews that can take decades and lawsuits that occur after that, it is extremely difficult to pull the same type of "New Deal" programs that happened during the 1930s.

My guess is for all the spending, very few people would end up employed. Is the goal employment at any cost, or providing people without jobs welfare?

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#508

Post by slg »

VLM wrote: post #381
gthtjtkt wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> at the expense of talking about why she should be president. Hillary couldn't make that argument because it would've drawn more attention to her most damning flaw: The fact that she's a textbook demagogue who was on the wrong side of every progressive issue until she found it politically expedient to "evolve". That's why so many people were so passionate about Sanders. You could go back to C-SPAN videos from 1992 a…

There's a dependency tree required to get to the point of "vote", and you have to pass thru "respect" first. I disagree with, but respect, Sanders, Stein, Warren, Feingold (and some other lefties). Hillary equals revulsion, repulsion. I can't be talked from "respect" to "vote" with someone I can't even respect first. The D party worked very hard on converting "respect" people to "vote" people. I think they achieved 1…

The reason you don't respect her is not from her doing or the doing of the DNC. It is because there has been a plurality of the political community that has been working for literal decades to destroy her reputation. If you repeat a lie loud enough and long enough it becomes true. In reality she is in the normal range of candidate. I grant you she is closer to the bad side than the good (at least in most people's mind), but she is no more corrupt or politically calculating than your average member of Congress.

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#509

Post by criddell »

thewhitetulip wrote: post #418
criddell wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Hillary focused her entire campaign on why people should stop Trump, at the expense of talking about why she should be president. I couldn't disagree more. This campaign was all about emotion, not rationality. Apparently facts don't matter and that's very hard to deal with.

What I find truly amazing is how people say "RIP Democracy" (not all of them), when it were the people of the US who elected Trump, didn't they? Also that the media is totally disconnected with the ground reality, I know it is in my country, it is more in the US apparently.

> "RIP Democracy"

Maybe they don't think Trump is going to leave office in eight years.

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#510

Post by daodedickinson »

antithesis wrote: post #439

I'm curious as to how instrumental automation and illegitimate poll voting have been in producing this result. I'm talking about things like pro-Trump Twitter bots[1], 4chan's /pol/ board mass-voting Trump in online polls, and automated thread voting to keep /r/The_Donald at the top of the trending subreddit list on Reddit. Does anyone have an idea? 1. A third of pro-Trump Twitter activity turned out to be automated.…

It's pretty interesting that Sam Altman wanted to stop Trump but YCombinator's Reddit was so instrumental in his victory, despite the opposition of it's employees. Facebook and Twitter helped Trump, too, despite Trump probably have sub-10% support among Facebook and Twitter employees. Google's SEME didn't seem to help as much as I thought it would. This will become more and more debated FAST now that Germany is beginning legal action against Facebook for helping promote political speech that Merkel and her allies have tried to keep from flaring up.
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