Donald Trump Is Elected President • Hacker News Board

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#461

Post by scrollaway » Wed, Nov 09, 2016, 5:18 PM UTC

thewhitetulip wrote: post #418

criddell wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Hillary focused her entire campaign on why people should stop Trump, at the expense of talking about why she should be president. I couldn't disagree more. This campaign was all about emotion, not rationality. Apparently facts don't matter and that's very hard to deal with.

What I find truly amazing is how people say "RIP Democracy" (not all of them), when it were the people of the US who elected Trump, didn't they? Also that the media is totally disconnected with the ground reality, I know it is in my country, it is more in the US apparently.

Not to specifically defend the people you mentioned, but democracy really is twisted that way.

People associate "democracy" with "fairness". With "representation". They associate it with "everybody's voice is heard". When 40+% of the people vote for something, and that something doesn't come through, that's 40+% of the voices being ignored. Don't disregard those simply because they didn't break the 51% barrier.

We can also agree that Trump played the entire electorate. He strategically chose to run as republican, he played the media like puppets to have a free platform to shout from, etc. Those things don't feel fair.

In fact, the entire election really seemed to be a pissing context at times. People also associate democracy with "elevated discourse" and I don't think anyone can claim this happened.

And of course, the US democratic system is really poor compared to other countries (France has one of the best, by comparison: two round voting and none of that electoral college nonsense). But that's another topic.

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#462

Post by bcit-cst » Wed, Nov 09, 2016, 5:18 PM UTC

I am still not sure what are Donald Trumps foreign policy positions are .

1) ON Syria/ISIS . All he as said is that he will hit them very very hard. okay going from that , does it mean a) he plans on putting 100K US troop on the ground and engage in an all-out war. b) or just put 100's of drones in the Air and just start bombing shit.

How does he plan on bringing on board our Allies like Jordan and Iraqi government on our side with this plan?

2) What is his plan regarding South China Sea. Does he plan on confronting the Chinese government . From what I have heard he wants to bring back troops from South Korea and Japan.

3) What are his plans for Ukraine civil war and Russian Aggression?

4) Finally, I am trying to imagine what would Trump do if he was the president during the Cuban missile crisis. Would he be able to enforce the blockade? Does he understand the the MAD doctrine ?

so many questions .

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#463

Post by cdelsolar » Wed, Nov 09, 2016, 5:18 PM UTC

IMTDb wrote: post #368

jernfrost wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can do what the democrats have talked about, which we have successfully done in Nordic countries which is to spend a lot of money on re-educating the workforce and making sure those at the bottom get decent skills. I grew up in a rustbelt like industrial town in Norway. We has shipyards, glass factory, paper mill, textile industry, lock systems etc. Almost all of it got closed down and moved overseas as I grew up…

USA does not have an oil fund that amounts do $150k per capita to pay for "free everything" (university education, universal health care, childcare) and good pensions for everybody. Norway generates more revenue with oil than the entires US of A, for 5 million people, and is third worldwide exporter for Natural Gas just behind Qatar and Russia, again with only 5 million people to serve (less than the population of Ne…

Do you know how rich the USA is in natural resources?

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#464

Post by themckman » Wed, Nov 09, 2016, 5:18 PM UTC

Delmania wrote: post #134

themckman wrote: post #74

So, I voted for DJT (I like calling him that, for some reason). I didn't vote for him because I agreed with any of his policies (as best I can tell he never actually presented any during the course of his campaign) or because I thought he was the best representative for the people of this country. I did so for a couple of reasons: 1. I like a good underdog story. The people that support him, for a multitude of reason…

> . Yeah, there are some loud one saying some ridiculous things, but I refuse to believe that close to half the country hates people of color and wants to completely isolate us from the rest of the world by closing our borders. It just can't be true. You've never been to the deep south, much the south, have you? > 2. I believed he was the candidate with the biggest chance of winning that would bring about the biggest…

> You've never been to the deep south, much the south, have you?

I have been to the south (maybe not the "deep south") but your general assumption that I don't have a great understanding of the people that reside there is accurate. I do understand that there actually are people who truly hate people of color. What I was really taking issue with is the label of bigotry being so readily applied to anyone who supports Trump. I just find it unfair.

Regarding your last point, I wasn't necessarily trying to say that the change and disruption would happen specifically within government or by way of the laws we might pass. I apologize if that wasn't entirely clear. The most obvious place, as I mentioned, where we might see some of this is within both of the major parties themselves and how they operate outside of government. The Democrats will start that process immediately as they were the biggest losers and the Republicans will put that on hold as they do have some control over government, but clearly their party isn't in great shape either.

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#465

Post by TulliusCicero » Wed, Nov 09, 2016, 5:19 PM UTC

jernfrost wrote: post #215

SolaceQuantum wrote: post #17

Now that the voices of the disenfranchised blue collar workers have been heard, what actually can be done to help them? I'm less worried about the accusations of racism, etc. because it appears to me a majority are voting because their livelihoods have been lost and, despite economics saying globalization will bring new jobs, they aren't showing up in the critical areas where they are needed. So, what policies can be…

You can do what the democrats have talked about, which we have successfully done in Nordic countries which is to spend a lot of money on re-educating the workforce and making sure those at the bottom get decent skills. I grew up in a rustbelt like industrial town in Norway. We has shipyards, glass factory, paper mill, textile industry, lock systems etc. Almost all of it got closed down and moved overseas as I grew up…

> You can do what the democrats have talked about, which we have successfully done in Nordic countries which is to spend a lot of money on re-educating the workforce and making sure those at the bottom get decent skills.

One of the issues with this is that while yes, you can get the people to become more skilled/educated, ultimately the jobs that take advantage of that skills and education are in cities, not in small towns or rural areas where so many of these people currently live. And that's probably not gonna change.

Now, you could say, "well that's fine, we can give them moving stipends or something" but a lot of people are reluctant to leave what they've known as homes for so long. Such a strategy essentially puts these areas into hospice mode. That's an uncomfortable thought for probably most Americans.

And moving public sector jobs, while it might work, is probably politically untenable in America; the areas that are dying are the same ones that are generally hostile to government.

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#466

Post by blakeyrat » Wed, Nov 09, 2016, 5:19 PM UTC

drzaiusapelord wrote: post #425

blakeyrat wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in a relatively small suburb of Seattle. I'm a software developer. There are no jobs for me where I live. None. None within 20 miles. The only job for me is in Seattle or Bellevue or Redmond, an hour-long commute. I love where I live, and I don't want to live in Seattle (which I could barely afford anyway-- I like owning a house). I also don't want to exclusively work-from-home and be cut-off socially from my…

So you're proposing a massive tax[1] increase on urban workers who live with urban compromises (traffic, higher prices on goods, higher real estate prices, crime, terrible schools, high taxes, pollution, etc) to be near work so that other workers in the suburbs can enjoy big lawns and beautiful single-family homes? Well, that's been our strategy with these red state rust belts for decades and it doesn't work. These s…

> So you're proposing

I'm not proposing anything. This is a casual conversation on a web forum, not drafting a party platform.

> a massive tax[1] increase

I'm definitely not proposing anything massive.

> on urban workers who live with urban compromises (traffic, high prices, crime, etc) to be near work so that other workers in the suburbs can enjoy big lawns and beautiful single-family homes?

I live in the suburbs and I have to deal with all of those things. Remember: my exact gripe is I have to commute into the city to be employed. While I'm there, I'm subjected to the same traffic, high prices, crime, etc. as all other city dwellers are. And I get even more traffic coming and going.

And I don't see anything wrong with people who want to own a lawn or a single-family home being able to own one.

> Well, that's been our strategy with these red state rust belts for decades

No it hasn't.

You know what? Nevermind. I don't want to get into any more political discussion right now. Just relax a bit. It's just a casual conversation on a web form, I don't run the RNC or anything and I wasn't drafting a law and I don't need to be yelled at for how wrong I am.

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#467

Post by mwfunk » Wed, Nov 09, 2016, 5:19 PM UTC

thewhitetulip wrote: post #418

criddell wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Hillary focused her entire campaign on why people should stop Trump, at the expense of talking about why she should be president. I couldn't disagree more. This campaign was all about emotion, not rationality. Apparently facts don't matter and that's very hard to deal with.

What I find truly amazing is how people say "RIP Democracy" (not all of them), when it were the people of the US who elected Trump, didn't they? Also that the media is totally disconnected with the ground reality, I know it is in my country, it is more in the US apparently.

I think it's more, "democracy is broken in America", and the victors are in a position to hasten its demise.

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#468

Post by afterburner » Wed, Nov 09, 2016, 5:19 PM UTC

jernfrost wrote: post #144

Sigh, the only think positive I can imagine coming out of this is that now, I get four years I can make fun of how stupid American's are. As the country descends into chaos and non of Trump's promises comes truth I can sit in my couch and keep repeating: "I told you so!" Good thing Republican's get all the power. Now they fully own all the shit that is to come. They wont be able to blame that on anybody else. I think…

> I hope the rich elites are horrified today.

The rich? They're getting their tax cuts...

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#469

Post by mattnewton » Wed, Nov 09, 2016, 5:19 PM UTC

edko wrote: post #406

I doubt that, by consistently saying the same thing, anyone can be right for 24 years. The world changes; what is right 24 years ago may not be right today, and vice versa.

Equal rights for people regardless of race, creed or gender identity is going to be right for a hell of a lot longer than 24 years. The reality of class struggle is going to be right for a lot longer than 24 years.

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#470

Post by CalChris » Wed, Nov 09, 2016, 5:20 PM UTC

chrisper wrote: post #385

CalChris wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would counsel against the US. As an American, I'm looking at Canada and Germany. I have a Canadian work permit and I'm looking at their startup visa. I was offered German/EU residency last night.

> I was offered German/EU residency last night. Which area of Germany are you planning to go to?

I honestly have no idea. I've lived/worked in Switzerland (Geneva) and Italy before. I wasn't expecting it and I really haven't had the time to let this sink in.