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Donald Trump Is Elected President

nytimes.com

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Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#381

Post by VLM »

gthtjtkt wrote: post #248
huac wrote: post #109

I have a lot of thoughts, but here's one: Hillary focused her entire campaign on why people should stop Trump, at the expense of talking about why she should be president. In general, making the case against someone else rather than the affirmative case for yourself doesn't work. It's reaction versus action. It's undoubtably true now that there was a very real populist anger towards the existing political order, and…

> at the expense of talking about why she should be president. Hillary couldn't make that argument because it would've drawn more attention to her most damning flaw: The fact that she's a textbook demagogue who was on the wrong side of every progressive issue until she found it politically expedient to "evolve". That's why so many people were so passionate about Sanders. You could go back to C-SPAN videos from 1992 a…

There's a dependency tree required to get to the point of "vote", and you have to pass thru "respect" first.

I disagree with, but respect, Sanders, Stein, Warren, Feingold (and some other lefties). Hillary equals revulsion, repulsion. I can't be talked from "respect" to "vote" with someone I can't even respect first.

The D party worked very hard on converting "respect" people to "vote" people. I think they achieved 100% success. The problem is most of the country can never respect her, and there was zero effort put into making her respectable (perhaps it was recognized as impossible?)

There's something fundamentally wrong internally with the D party when the ground seems to be crawling with respectable (possibly votable!) candidates but instead we get a movie caricature of Lex Luther combined with a slightly more chicken hawk bloodthirsty Joker from a sequel rejected in the 90s. There's something just horribly fundamentally wrong with how people gain political power inside the D party, resulting in the wrong leaders at the wrong times.

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#383

Post by Frondo »

inimino wrote: post #196
mch82 wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a community we need to create more tools like WordPress that decentralize wealth creation and create jobs. We need to create fewer tools like Medium that centralize wealth creation and eliminate jobs.

I appreciate your passion for decentralization, but these issues go a bit beyond what kinds of software we write. The issues this election raised aren't going to be solved by writing code.

Too true.

If you want to start steering political life according to your values, next election cycle, pick a candidate for city/state/federal/whatever, or cause that matters to you, and give them 10 hours a week of your time.

They might win, and you might have your issue or values better represented at your city/state/federal/whatever.

If they lose, you get up and do it again the next election cycle.

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#384

Post by ProAm »

SolaceQuantum wrote: post #17

Now that the voices of the disenfranchised blue collar workers have been heard, what actually can be done to help them? I'm less worried about the accusations of racism, etc. because it appears to me a majority are voting because their livelihoods have been lost and, despite economics saying globalization will bring new jobs, they aren't showing up in the critical areas where they are needed. So, what policies can be…

> Now that the voices of the disenfranchised blue collar workers have been heard, what actually can be done to help them?

You are 100% correct. Trump wont do anything about it, but now that the message has been sent and heard I think the next election in 4 years is where we will see this being addressed an hopefully some change for these people. The people want change, now they've been heard. Both political parties were decimated in this election, I think they'll try harder next time for the people.

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#385

Post by chrisper »

CalChris wrote: post #104
phreack wrote: post #27

As an outsider, it is painfully clear that I should not try to move my business to the US at this point. Europe's looking better than ever now for tech startups.

I would counsel against the US. As an American, I'm looking at Canada and Germany. I have a Canadian work permit and I'm looking at their startup visa. I was offered German/EU residency last night.

> I was offered German/EU residency last night.

Which area of Germany are you planning to go to?

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#386

Post by patmcc »

greenshackle2 wrote: post #311
gthtjtkt wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> at the expense of talking about why she should be president. Hillary couldn't make that argument because it would've drawn more attention to her most damning flaw: The fact that she's a textbook demagogue who was on the wrong side of every progressive issue until she found it politically expedient to "evolve". That's why so many people were so passionate about Sanders. You could go back to C-SPAN videos from 1992 a…

Having the same opinion for 24 years is not a virtue. In the (probably apocryphal) words of Keynes: > When someone persuades me that I am wrong, I change my mind. What do you do? It's not a sign of vice either; I'm sure he's been believing that the Earth is round for 24+ years, and that's fine. What matters is accuracy, and updating in the face of new evidence, not consistency . Consistency in the face of new evidenc…

>>Having the same opinion for 24 years is not a virtue.

It is if they were good opinions the whole damn time. Being for marriage equality for 24 years is a virtue. Being for an improved social safety net for 24 years is a virtue. Being for universal healthcare for 24 years is a virtue.

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#387

Post by kbenson »

huac wrote: post #337
criddell wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Hillary focused her entire campaign on why people should stop Trump, at the expense of talking about why she should be president. I couldn't disagree more. This campaign was all about emotion, not rationality. Apparently facts don't matter and that's very hard to deal with.

There are emotional and rational ways to make any particular argument. She just chose to focus on arguments that only her staffers care about, rather than appealing to the (obviously) very real populist energy and anger. Facts do matter, and I think it's disingenuous to really argue that they don't, even to the American electorate. I think the overriding truth is that politics is about engagement, and it's a battle -…

> Facts do matter

Obviously. I think the point being made though is that they seem to matter less than many people thought. Trump ran a campaign that was light on facts, and in many cases used misinformation in lieu of facts. The fact that this is less important than what, if it's true, amounts to a very slight level of corruption in the other candidate (I'm unsure why I should have considered the idea that money given to a charity would get you semi-favorable treatment with regard to an audience as the horrible thing it was presented as) is something I find upsetting.

I understand that people are upset with their governance, but the only thing that comes to mind when I think of this situation is "to cut off your nose to spite your face."

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#388

Post by dvdcxn »

lordCarbonFiber wrote: post #41
gragas wrote: post #11

I'll say this again: Does this not prove that "diverse" liberalism isn't so diverse after all? Shouldn't a diverse group of people have seen this coming? Or is liberalism actually systematically excluding people by labelling them as "racist" and "sexist", when in fact they're just fiscal and social conservatives?

What does "socially conservative" mean in 2016 if not racist/sexist/homophobic? One of Trump's slogans was "Take America back"; that's not particularly subtle as to from who. The line gets a bit muddier on the fiscal side. If you're all for cutting programs that disproportionately support the poor and the poor happen to be disproportionately minority is there a racial component? That's worth being aware of.

> "Take America back"; that's not particularly subtle as to from who.

Depends on the context really. If that was Sander's slogan, you'd immediately assume whom you'd be taking it back was the bankers & corporation.

It's one of those generic slogan that reflects the views of the beholder. Some will assume it means from the immigrants, others the bureaucrats. It's definitely smarter than the damp squibs that Clinton came up with.

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#389

Post by dmode »

themckman wrote: post #74

So, I voted for DJT (I like calling him that, for some reason). I didn't vote for him because I agreed with any of his policies (as best I can tell he never actually presented any during the course of his campaign) or because I thought he was the best representative for the people of this country. I did so for a couple of reasons: 1. I like a good underdog story. The people that support him, for a multitude of reason…

If you think DJT will change anything you are sadly mistaken. That's not how the American government works. And American economy is deeply entrenched with the global economy, so nothing will be changed. Also, some of the things Peter Thiel mentioned are often labeled as "Big Government" spending - e.g., space, healthcare, education etc. Be sure that Trump's party is categorically against Big Govt spending. So none of that will come to fruition as well.
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