Donald Trump Is Elected President • Hacker News Board

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#351

Post by Turing_Machine » Wed, Nov 09, 2016, 4:55 PM UTC

md_ wrote: post #131

scrollaway wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

:) The internet has been such a nasty place today and, similarly to the day of the Paris attacks, it's been really nice to find reasonably moderate discourse on HN. As... curious as I personally find America's choices in presidency, I'm just as ashamed of some of my follower feeds on various social media. Seriously guys, don't demonize people, especially by association. Refusing to hear your political opponents out i…

It's tough. I've been trying to find a pen pal who can give me some reasonable arguments for Donald Trump for the last few weeks, to no avail. Not living in the US, I don't really meet people who support Donald Trump. I'm probably living in a bubble, which isn't a great feeling--but at the same time, it's hard to credit the democratic process when you can't understand the alternative view. No doubt this is a symptom…

"I've been trying to find a pen pal who can give me some reasonable arguments for Donald Trump for the last few weeks, to no avail."

First off, I do not like Donald Trump and did not vote for him.

That said:

It's not "racist", "misogynist", or any other kind of "ist" for a factory worker in Ohio to believe that he shouldn't have to compete with Chinese slave labor.

Nor is it "racist", "misogynist", or any other kind of "ist" for an unemployed coal miner in West Virginia to take exception to being lectured on his "white male privilege" by an academic who's never done a hard day's labor in his life, or to be upset by seeing the industry that's employed his family for generations deliberately destroyed for no reason. The coal is still going to be mined and burned. It's just going to be mined and burned in countries with few, if any, environmental regulations.

Multiply those guys by a few million and you have Trump.

Will Trump actually help these people? Probably not, but he's listening to them. He's at least pretending to care about their concerns. The Democrats (supposedly the party of the working class), on the other hand, have been spending the last few decades demonizing them.

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#352

Post by blakeyrat » Wed, Nov 09, 2016, 4:55 PM UTC

lackbeard wrote: post #117

moultano wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dramatically increase the amount of housing in urban areas so more people can move there and away from the places without any industry left.

This is the insanely simple and insanely correct answer.

If I wanted to live in a city, I would have moved into one years ago. I don't. I like where I live. I just want a job within less than an hours' commute of me.

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#353

Post by AnOscelot » Wed, Nov 09, 2016, 4:55 PM UTC

gragas wrote: post #97

vinhboy wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for saying this. I needed this today. I am so damn sick of people trying to wiggle out of the "racist" label. Economic anxiety is not an excuse for racism.

I voted for Trump and I'm not racist.

Doesn't matter if you're personally racist or not. You voted for a racist who has used racism as a substantial part of his campaign. You've done your part to give a racist power.

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#354

Post by gdulli » Wed, Nov 09, 2016, 4:55 PM UTC

ajross wrote: post #201

user837387 wrote: post #55

He got elected on all these promises. 1- Build the wall and make Mexico pay for it 2- Deportation Force on day one 3- Repeal obamacare 4- Renegotiate NAFTA 5- Bring back coal 6- Reduce taxes for the rich 7- Ban muslims 8- Prosecuting Hillary Clinton 9- Bring back American companies to the USA 10- Etc. The Senate and the House are Republicans and the Supreme court will lean republican after his appointment. What do yo…

In all honesty: almost none. He just wanted to be president. Most of his time will be spend enriching himself by selling banal access and bloviating on the world stage. That's pretty awful, but not apocalypse-level awful. Of your list: The wall is a technical impossibility that everyone can recognize. There's no funding for a deportation force and the political optics of goon squads rounding people up is something co…

> The wall is a technical impossibility that everyone can recognize

Right, and it won't get funded. And in 2020 when the same poor people are still poor, he'll claim it's not his fault, it's because he didn't get to build the wall.

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#355

Post by mikeash » Wed, Nov 09, 2016, 4:56 PM UTC

hx87 wrote: post #202

commenting wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's like 1930s Germany all over again, except that Muslims are the new Jews. You'd think we would have learned from last time a racist, populist demagogue gained control of a nation. (Yes, I'm aware that "Godwin's Law invoked". In this case, it's actually relevant.)

Except, you know, we don't have an Article 48, any proposed Enabling Act would be filibustered to hell, and our society is nowhere near as authoritarian as it used to be, much less 1930s Germany.

Hitler started out in a relatively powerless position, and got his Enabling Act afterwards. You say it wouldn't happen, but I think all it would take is one big terrorist attack and the people would be clamoring for it.

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#356

Post by pluma » Wed, Nov 09, 2016, 4:56 PM UTC

criddell wrote: post #290

huac wrote: post #109

I have a lot of thoughts, but here's one: Hillary focused her entire campaign on why people should stop Trump, at the expense of talking about why she should be president. In general, making the case against someone else rather than the affirmative case for yourself doesn't work. It's reaction versus action. It's undoubtably true now that there was a very real populist anger towards the existing political order, and…

> Hillary focused her entire campaign on why people should stop Trump, at the expense of talking about why she should be president. I couldn't disagree more. This campaign was all about emotion, not rationality. Apparently facts don't matter and that's very hard to deal with.

Contrast her making her candidacy a Feminist (and by absurd extrapolation LGBTQ and diversity) issue with Obama's campaign. Yes, everybody felt good about having elected a black president when it was over but he didn't offer "black cards" for download on his website and show grandiose self-promoting videos about the Black Man's Struggle.

A large part of Hillary's campaign (both officially and via her supporters on social media) was actively shaming people into voting for "the woman" instead of "the bigot". Unsurprisingly that seems to have backfired, leaving many liberals flabbergasted how "Women for Trump" was ever a thing.

I would have been upset with either candidate winning but the entire candidacy showed the worst side of American election cycles: mudslinging, character assassination and trying to convince everyone the other guy is literally the devil. Trump's accusations of Clinton being "a liar" and "a criminal" (IOW a typical career politician) were pretty harmless compared to the hyperbole (deserved or not) hauled at him.

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#357

Post by neeleshs » Wed, Nov 09, 2016, 4:56 PM UTC

blakeyrat wrote: post #294

SolaceQuantum wrote: post #17

Now that the voices of the disenfranchised blue collar workers have been heard, what actually can be done to help them? I'm less worried about the accusations of racism, etc. because it appears to me a majority are voting because their livelihoods have been lost and, despite economics saying globalization will bring new jobs, they aren't showing up in the critical areas where they are needed. So, what policies can be…

I live in a relatively small suburb of Seattle. I'm a software developer. There are no jobs for me where I live. None. None within 20 miles. The only job for me is in Seattle or Bellevue or Redmond, an hour-long commute. I love where I live, and I don't want to live in Seattle (which I could barely afford anyway-- I like owning a house). I also don't want to exclusively work-from-home and be cut-off socially from my…

I believe you simply made a choice. I live in the bay area, but my commute is hour long,30 miles away from my house, and I don't have any jobs that I want to do near my house. That's a choice I made.

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#358

Post by ep103 » Wed, Nov 09, 2016, 4:56 PM UTC

matthewmacleod wrote: post #190

koolba wrote: post #70

As someone who's actively vocalized his support for Trump in the past, both here[1] and in my meat space life, I'm ecstatic with the results of this election. Not just the POTUS, but the trifecta of the house and senate as well. That's as loud of a mandate as can be expected from a strongly divided country. On top of all that, with the SCOTUS picks that are expected in the next few years, this election is going to be…

Now let's move forward on the direction that's been chosen I guess one of the bigger problems is that it's utterly unclear what direction has been chosen. I think it's fair to say—do correct me if you think I'm wrong—that most of the policies that were advocated by Trump prior to the election will not be put into practice. There are a few reasons for that – many of them are practically unworkable, or contradictory, o…

This was a rejection of the political establishment, rejection of neo-liberal economics, and a rejection of both the neo-conservative and (to a lesser degree) the libertarian wings of the republican party.

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#359

Post by cortesoft » Wed, Nov 09, 2016, 4:57 PM UTC

stefs wrote: post #204

SolaceQuantum wrote: post #17

Now that the voices of the disenfranchised blue collar workers have been heard, what actually can be done to help them? I'm less worried about the accusations of racism, etc. because it appears to me a majority are voting because their livelihoods have been lost and, despite economics saying globalization will bring new jobs, they aren't showing up in the critical areas where they are needed. So, what policies can be…

reddit user TPKM's comment on the sanders-would-have-won-thread: "Support for Trump, much like Brexit, was based upon an extremely widespread feeling that average people are not getting their fair share of the benefits of globalisation. This is neither a specifically Democrat or Republican problem, and people have been saying it one way or another for years. It was also the foundation of Sanders' campaign. The differ…

The reason people don't feel they are getting the benefits of globalization is because the benefits are not as direct as the costs. When prices for goods are lower, it is not obvious to the average person that this is because of globalization. When your factory job is shipped overseas, the cost is readily apparent. No one makes the connection between the lower costs for things and globalization.

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#360

Post by inimino » Wed, Nov 09, 2016, 4:57 PM UTC

chris_wot wrote: post #219

dang wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please don't ignore the request to be civil and substantive. HN depends on it. We detached this comment from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12911042 and marked it off-topic.

What. The. Hell? That is absolutely civil, and it is substantive and it's a fact we should all aspire to! This is an unmitigated bit of bastardry, and you ought to be ashamed of yourself.

Your veiled sarcasm wasn't fooling anyone, and arguing with the moderators (who honestly have enough to do) is tiresome. Please be sincere, if you're going to comment at all.