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Donald Trump Is Elected President

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Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#211

Post by micaksica »

noobiemcfoob wrote: post #121
mitchpron wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Education. It's what Obama was emphasizing his entire presidency. Those jobs are never coming back, and even more are going to be automated. The education gap between rich and poor (and white and minority) is getting larger because of hoodlum-fearing mothers who support segregated neighborhoods and schools. Plus the poor-parent schools stay poor and the rich-parent schools stay rich. All of these factors together (wh…

Education helps the young, at least as our systems are built. The people vocalizing their opinion by voting for Trump are beyond the age where education can be the key (old dogs and new tricks, etc.). There isn't a will to go to an educational program. There is a will to work and support yourself, but no work for them to do... /because we can't get our shit together and fund infrastructure programs //Not bitter.

> The people vocalizing their opinion by voting for Trump are beyond the age where education can be the key

I hate seeing this meme. It is ageist and makes older people less likely to be hired for even their same jobs.

Old people can still learn to do new things. The problem I see is that a lot of older people do not want to learn new things. Also, old people tend to have obligations such as family/child expenses, residence costs, etc. that they want to be compensated for even at an entry level.

Rural conservatism has a lot to do with preserving tradition, that is, making sure things don't change from the old status quo you loved before.

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#212

Post by Delmania »

noobiemcfoob wrote: post #121
mitchpron wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Education. It's what Obama was emphasizing his entire presidency. Those jobs are never coming back, and even more are going to be automated. The education gap between rich and poor (and white and minority) is getting larger because of hoodlum-fearing mothers who support segregated neighborhoods and schools. Plus the poor-parent schools stay poor and the rich-parent schools stay rich. All of these factors together (wh…

Education helps the young, at least as our systems are built. The people vocalizing their opinion by voting for Trump are beyond the age where education can be the key (old dogs and new tricks, etc.). There isn't a will to go to an educational program. There is a will to work and support yourself, but no work for them to do... /because we can't get our shit together and fund infrastructure programs //Not bitter.

There is never an age where education can't help you. It might not lead you into a new career, but it can broaden and deepen your understanding of the situation to help you make better choices. At it's, education could help the blue collar worker understand why his job is not coming back, and that he does need to do something else. Right now, those people believe Trump will someone bring those jobs back.

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#213

Post by dang »

paulddraper wrote: post #164
dang wrote: post #2

We buried the previous thread on this because, at almost 2000 comments, it was pegging the server. If you'd like to read it, and don't intend to comment, you could help your fellow users by logging out first, so we can serve you the page from cache: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12907201 . If you do intend to comment, please take extra care to do so civilly and substantively, in the spirit of this site. Most p…

So...now we have to start all over? I know I sound like a complete d--k, but my laptop from 2012 has eight cores that each run over 3 billion cycles a second. How do I get frustrated by sites not accepting HN's "hug of death". An now HN can't even stand its own hug... Anyway, thanks for getting things running again! You guys are awesome!

We don't have more than one server and HN proper (not counting caches) runs on a single core.

Believe me, we hate slow software at least as much as you do and have put a lot of effort into addressing this. HN is a lot faster than it used to be on median load. It still falls short on excessive load. We'll get there!

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#214

Post by _audakel »

micaksica wrote: post #186
moultano wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dramatically increase the amount of housing in urban areas so more people can move there and away from the places without any industry left.

This will not help. You are supposing that the people who feel disenfranchised in the Rust Belt want to move to NYC where they can get cheap housing and work in the city. They don't want the China model of having a Foxconn that hires rural workers to work in the big city. What these people want isn't fully rational; it's highly emotional. They want their 1950s-style old way of life back. They want their jobs in their…

With this thought process it almost seems like you are saying we have to wait for a generation to die off before this problem is "fixed".

Not saying that you are wrong, but it is a sad idea that we can't fix it. Maybe instead of giving out "gov't handouts" we just give out VR headsets and give pple a Matrix like existance who can no longer bare the thought of their current living conditions. Sad.

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#215

Post by jernfrost »

SolaceQuantum wrote: post #17

Now that the voices of the disenfranchised blue collar workers have been heard, what actually can be done to help them? I'm less worried about the accusations of racism, etc. because it appears to me a majority are voting because their livelihoods have been lost and, despite economics saying globalization will bring new jobs, they aren't showing up in the critical areas where they are needed. So, what policies can be…

You can do what the democrats have talked about, which we have successfully done in Nordic countries which is to spend a lot of money on re-educating the workforce and making sure those at the bottom get decent skills.

I grew up in a rustbelt like industrial town in Norway. We has shipyards, glass factory, paper mill, textile industry, lock systems etc. Almost all of it got closed down and moved overseas as I grew up.

But we never ended up in the deep pit blue collar America ended up in, because government took a very active stance early to fight this with active policies. In towns where factories died, they moved public sector jobs from the capital.

People got a lot of retraining for new jobs. There is a strong system for vocational training in technical jobs like Germany so people could get skills for more advance jobs which was easier to keep when competing against asian industrial giants.

Our government offers free university education, so even less well off blue collar families could send their kids to good schools. And when economic times got harder it never hit blue collar works as hard as in America because we have free universal health care, heavily subsidized childcare, good pensions for everybody.

Basically the welfare system we built up saved our blue collar workers. Yet Americans pretend that there is no solution to this problem except attacking minorities, Mexico, China etc.

It is rich people like Trump and their agenda, which has made sure that blue collar workers in America have felt the influence of globalization harder than many other blue collar workers in the west.

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#216

Post by taxicabjesus »

Four years ago, I wrote a sort-of tongue-in-cheek story for Kuro5hin.org (RIP) titled "Humanity's Second-Best Hope" [1]. I pointed out that the Democratic president had failed to deliver on the Change he had promised, and shared my faint hope that maybe Mitt Romney was a "political gladiator" who'd flip on the plutocracy once he was elected.

[1] http://www.TaxiWars.org/humanitys-second-best-hope/

Alas, Mitt Romney was no gladiator.

At some point in this election cycle, I noticed dilbert cartoonist Scott Adams' blog. On August 13, 2015 Scott had a post about Donald Trump titled "Clown Genius" [2]:

  Like many of you, I have been entertained by the 
  unstoppable clown car that is Donald Trump. On the 
  surface, and several layers deep as well, Trump appears 
  to be a narcissistic blow-hard with inadequate 
  credentials to lead a country.

  The only problem with my analysis is that there is an 
  eerie consistency to his success so far. Is there a 
  method to it? Is there some sort of system at work under 
  the hood?

  Probably yes. Allow me to describe some of the hypnosis 
  and persuasion methods Mr. Trump has employed on you. ...
[2] http://blog.dilbert.com/post/126589300371/clown-genius

For the entire election cycle, the political media promoted Hillary Clinton as the presidential heir-apparent, as if she was The Chosen One. Usually the plutocracy runs a Chosen candidate against a backup - someone who, even if fickle voters decided to not select the Chosen candidate, would still be useful to them.

Donald Trump was not a backup candidate. He was give free coverage during the primaries because he was considered a clown-candidate that wouldn't be taken seriously, it was an easy story, and because it was thought that The Chosen One could beat him. This was covered in one of the Wikileaks emails...

Donald Trump is the Gladiator that Mitt Romney was not. I'm optimistic.

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#217

Post by IanDrake »

st3v3r wrote: post #156

The reason people are demonizing Trump supporters is because they ran on a ticket of undoing just about all of the progress that many had fought hard for over the past eight years. LGBTQ rights are likely out the window, as is any hope at gender equality or income equality. So forgive me if I have no sympathy whatsoever for those that are being "demonized" on social media, as they likely aren't going to have to face…

I didn't vote for Trump, but what LGBTQ rights are you talking about? I don't recall any federal law that passed granting them rights.

Also, what sort of income equality were you hoping a Democratic government would implement? How would the mechanics of that work?

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#218

Post by pionar »

md_ wrote: post #131
scrollaway wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

:) The internet has been such a nasty place today and, similarly to the day of the Paris attacks, it's been really nice to find reasonably moderate discourse on HN. As... curious as I personally find America's choices in presidency, I'm just as ashamed of some of my follower feeds on various social media. Seriously guys, don't demonize people, especially by association. Refusing to hear your political opponents out i…

It's tough. I've been trying to find a pen pal who can give me some reasonable arguments for Donald Trump for the last few weeks, to no avail. Not living in the US, I don't really meet people who support Donald Trump. I'm probably living in a bubble, which isn't a great feeling--but at the same time, it's hard to credit the democratic process when you can't understand the alternative view. No doubt this is a symptom…

I've heard the alternative view, and do understand it somewhat (Disclaimer, I voted for Clinton).

This election wasn't about women. This election wasn't about immigration, or minorities. This election was about the working class (blue-collar folks) feeling like they're getting shafted by government.

I live in what's usually a heavily Democratic state, Michigan. This year it'll probably go for Trump. Not because of Muslims, not because of terrorism, but because of the economy.

For years, these people (mostly white, blue-collar workers) have been told the economy's doing great for most people, free trade is great for most people, unemployment is low for most people, and the ACA helps most people.

However, for these folks, they see themselves as not part of that most people that are benefiting from our economic policies. All they hear from the establishment is the same bullshit "promises" and corporatism that they've been given for the past 30 years.

They're sick of it. They're sick of Democrats and Republicans toeing the same line, deferring to "the market" and not doing anything about it.

Donald Trump had answers. Whether those are the right answers remains to be seen (my guess is they're not). Trump said what they wanted to hear, and wasn't afraid of pissing off the establishment along the way. That's what these folks want.

They didn't vote for Donald Trump the person, they voted for Donald Trump the personality.

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#219

Post by chris_wot »

dang wrote: post #33
chris_wot wrote: post #28

Do it in the spirit of those who hold the office of U.S. Presidency: be civil and courteous, make sure you don't disparage anyone's ethnicity or gender, and make sure you don't make wild and unfounded accusations, amiright?

Please don't ignore the request to be civil and substantive. HN depends on it. We detached this comment from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12911042 and marked it off-topic.

What. The. Hell? That is absolutely civil, and it is substantive and it's a fact we should all aspire to!

This is an unmitigated bit of bastardry, and you ought to be ashamed of yourself.

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