Donald Trump is the president-elect of the U.S. • Hacker News Board

Re: Donald Trump is the president-elect of the U.S.

#881

Post by ant6n » Wed, Nov 09, 2016, 2:59 PM UTC

beejiu wrote: post #218

nopinsight wrote: post #144

Brexit and the Trump election share the same root causes: * Inequality within developed countries, leading to dissatisfaction among working-class voters. * Globalization benefits accrue largely to capital owners, leaving a lot of workers behind. Many blame immigration since it is the most visible cause. The blame is partly backed by human's xenophobic instincts. Ironically, Trump's tax plan will mostly benefit the ri…

You've hit the nail on the head: inequality is at the heart of this. Unfortunately, people are quick to forget the democratic foundation of society. It is not big businesses that have the final say, neither is it the middle classes or any other segment of population. It is the people, collectively, that have influence. And when you forget that over a long period of time, it comes back to bite you hard. Lesson for the…

It seems so strange: Inequality makes people vote for billionaire.

Re: Donald Trump is the president-elect of the U.S.

#882

Post by anthony_romeo » Wed, Nov 09, 2016, 3:05 PM UTC

dagw wrote: post #380

jroseattle wrote: post #356

Big data and big polling (Nate Silvers) took a major credibility hit in this election. People will be studying this for years. Of course, it's not that big data itself was to blame, just the interpretation of it. Nate, not sure what to tell you but that was a significant miss in this election, going all the way back into the primaries.

Fivethirtyeight said the odds for Clinton where about 70-30 and trending narrower. Given how close the final win was I wouldn't really call that a miss. The miss where the models that where calling it 90+ for Clinton

And Silver had repeatedly stated that the reasons the odds were higher for trump in his models than in others was the much larger number of undecided voters than in past elections. It's somewhat apparent that a large chunk "undecided" voters were actually Trump supporters, perhaps afraid of being labeled as "deplorable".

Maybe the result of maligning (and I'm using the term loosely here) the opposition voters results in statistically significant polling errors (echos of Brexit). Maybe word clouds can be used to suggest a lean toward one side of the error? An embarrassment index of sorts? I dunno.

Obviously not really a win for Silver, but I'll give him credit for being more conservative in his estimates than other models. You work with the data you have.

Re: Donald Trump is the president-elect of the U.S.

#883

Post by shawn-butler » Wed, Nov 09, 2016, 3:06 PM UTC

I don't know why anyone listens to social science "experts" at all without asking significant methodological questions in the future.

I keep hearing how it is unbelievable how there is a 55% approval rating of the current sitting president and yet...

If it were me I guess I would be asking how exactly yet another made-up "fact" is calculated / rendered believable rather than just parroting more nonsense.

Re: Donald Trump is the president-elect of the U.S.

#884

Post by jazzyk » Wed, Nov 09, 2016, 3:06 PM UTC

Mikeb85 wrote: post #186

thewarrior wrote: post #44

It is possible to view this as an isolated event or a trend. Coming on the heels of BREXIT this is a trend. The attempts at building an interconnected globalised world are beginning to fail. A bunch of elites decided to create their own trans-national utopia unchecked by borders and dismissed all criticism as racist or bigoted. The globalisation project has been rejected by a majority of the population. Whether it is…

You can't sacrifice large swaths of the population for the so called "greater" good. Globalisation, as it stands now, is neo-colonialism. It offshores blue collar jobs and concentrates white collar jobs in rich countries. It disenfranchises blue collar workers in the west, and causes brain drain in the developing world. All it's done is benefit the elite. Read progressive economists like Piketty, and combine it with…

I agree, but want to point out that it is not just blue collar jobs being off-shored. Many white-collar jobs (software development included) are being off-shored, too.

Re: Donald Trump is the president-elect of the U.S.

#885

Post by jazzyk » Wed, Nov 09, 2016, 3:07 PM UTC

Mikeb85 wrote: post #186

thewarrior wrote: post #44

It is possible to view this as an isolated event or a trend. Coming on the heels of BREXIT this is a trend. The attempts at building an interconnected globalised world are beginning to fail. A bunch of elites decided to create their own trans-national utopia unchecked by borders and dismissed all criticism as racist or bigoted. The globalisation project has been rejected by a majority of the population. Whether it is…

You can't sacrifice large swaths of the population for the so called "greater" good. Globalisation, as it stands now, is neo-colonialism. It offshores blue collar jobs and concentrates white collar jobs in rich countries. It disenfranchises blue collar workers in the west, and causes brain drain in the developing world. All it's done is benefit the elite. Read progressive economists like Piketty, and combine it with…

I agree, but want to point out that it is not just blue collar jobs being off-shored. Many white-collar jobs (software development included) are being off-shored, too.

Re: Donald Trump is the president-elect of the U.S.

#886

Post by byuu » Wed, Nov 09, 2016, 3:08 PM UTC

nopinsight wrote: post #271

nopinsight wrote: post #144

Brexit and the Trump election share the same root causes: * Inequality within developed countries, leading to dissatisfaction among working-class voters. * Globalization benefits accrue largely to capital owners, leaving a lot of workers behind. Many blame immigration since it is the most visible cause. The blame is partly backed by human's xenophobic instincts. Ironically, Trump's tax plan will mostly benefit the ri…

Since the GOP now holds both Congress and the Presidency, with a possibility of the Supreme Court majority, they may enact some protectionist policies to appease the voters. However, they could in fact make the economic situations worse and some people would start to blame other things. Could the backlash spill to the technology and related sectors as well? (e.g. a neo-luddite movement might get started) Note: I did…

> with a possibility of the Supreme Court majority

... possibility? They already have it. He gets to pick Scalia's replacement and that's 5-4. If Ginsburg or Breyer can't make it 4-8 more years (and Ginsburg is 84), then it'll be a guarantee for the next 30+ years, minimum.

Re: Donald Trump is the president-elect of the U.S.

#887

Post by shaurz » Wed, Nov 09, 2016, 3:08 PM UTC

nostrademons wrote: post #327

thewarrior wrote: post #44

It is possible to view this as an isolated event or a trend. Coming on the heels of BREXIT this is a trend. The attempts at building an interconnected globalised world are beginning to fail. A bunch of elites decided to create their own trans-national utopia unchecked by borders and dismissed all criticism as racist or bigoted. The globalisation project has been rejected by a majority of the population. Whether it is…

Something I've been wondering about: We're seeing this pattern where the coasts of many countries are cosmopolitan and well-integrated into the world economy, but the interiors are very conservative and nationalistic. Scotland & London vs. Wales & the rest of Britain. The U.S. West Coast & Northeast vs. the Farm Belt, Rust Belt, and Mountain states. Croatia & Slovenia vs. the rest of Yugoslavia. The Baltic Republics…

Global city-states need to become independent with open immigration, separate from the Nations which should enforce strong immigration controls to maintain the native population & culture.

Re: Donald Trump is the president-elect of the U.S.

#888

Post by pcunite » Wed, Nov 09, 2016, 3:08 PM UTC

Thoughts on the election: For the past year, I've have been made to feel stupid (only the uneducated back Trump), violent (we cause rioting), abusive (can't treat women correctly), uncool (Lady Gaga tells me), and you name it. Fake patriots are everywhere and they did not even have the courage to explain what this was all about.

Last night was nothing short of a miracle. God stepped in and brought the victory over all the lying, cheating polling stations and managers. It was amazing. Trump won even though they had totally rigged it against him!

There is still a lot left to do. And just like finding out your best friend is not perfect, Trump has a lot to learn. He needs our future support and prayers. There is so much corruption and he is not experienced with this. Many will claim to be on his side (people "love" winners) and it will take time to identify the fakes.

The news media is lying to you. Think for yourselves.

Re: Donald Trump is the president-elect of the U.S.

#889

Post by curiousgeorgio » Wed, Nov 09, 2016, 3:08 PM UTC

nostrademons wrote: post #327

thewarrior wrote: post #44

It is possible to view this as an isolated event or a trend. Coming on the heels of BREXIT this is a trend. The attempts at building an interconnected globalised world are beginning to fail. A bunch of elites decided to create their own trans-national utopia unchecked by borders and dismissed all criticism as racist or bigoted. The globalisation project has been rejected by a majority of the population. Whether it is…

Something I've been wondering about: We're seeing this pattern where the coasts of many countries are cosmopolitan and well-integrated into the world economy, but the interiors are very conservative and nationalistic. Scotland & London vs. Wales & the rest of Britain. The U.S. West Coast & Northeast vs. the Farm Belt, Rust Belt, and Mountain states. Croatia & Slovenia vs. the rest of Yugoslavia. The Baltic Republics…

> Here in California, some of the proposals about sending all the immigrants back to where they came from seem absurd.

FYI, I'm not aware of anyone proposing to send all immigrants back, only undocumented (also known as "illegal") immigrants. Like it or not, the current laws are such that people in that category are not here legally, so if we truly are a nation of laws, those laws should be upheld, no?

If you don't agree with the law, vote to change it rather than act as if the law just doesn't exist.

To single out a certain group of people and act as if laws don't apply to them in a country that is otherwise built on laws is to deprive them (and all of us) of one of the most fundamental American virtues. Whether we agree with the laws or not, if we don't uphold them, we cease to be a free country (it's the laws that keep us free, after all). It's absurd to believe otherwise.

Or, you know, we can keep going down the rabbit hole of selectively enforcing laws, and we can ignore your vote too because some people don't agree with it; the voting laws are just words on paper.

Re: Donald Trump is the president-elect of the U.S.

#890

Post by beaned » Wed, Nov 09, 2016, 3:09 PM UTC

henrikschroder wrote: post #128

bdrool wrote: post #32

This event and Brexit are proof that you cannot shame people into voting how you want. Calling them bigots over and over just galvanizes them if anything.

It's more of a case that us upper-middle class liberal elites think we are shaming this segment of the population when we are calling them bigots and racists and stupid and uninformed and homophobic and hicks and white trash, because those are horrible things that we don't want to be called. But a large part of the population don't share that sentiment, they're not shamed, they don't care that you're screaming "RACIS…

I don't think you really have your finger on the pulse of most voters.

I can tell you as someone in silicon valley who sort of vaguely supports trump, that I have been essentially not permitted to talk about it. What's the benefit to it? Why would I speak up and engage in a conversation? Any talk of Trump here isn't actually a real debate. It's everyone around you saying "Trump supporters are racists and bigots. They are disgusting."

Nobody _actually_ wants to hear any arguments from the other side. So I sit with my mouth closed. It's better than losing my friends and having my coworkers ostracize me for my political views. Which maybe they would have the chance to change if they were willing to listen, but aren't.

I know so many people like myself. I was surprised with the result of the election, but not surprised at the fact that there was a surprise like this. Places like SV don't know how many Trump supporters there are or even _why_ they really support him, because they've essentially put their hands over their eyes and their ears and spun in circles shouting "Trump is racist! You are racist!"