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Ask HN: Do you still use UML?

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Re: Ask HN: Do you still use UML?

#181
post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Computers have less than a century of history so far and you're already able to predict the next thousands of years? Sounds like a religious belief to me.

> Computers have less than a century of history so far That's actually the point.

I'm sorry, I don't see it. Can you explain how that short history somehow makes your sweeping claims about the future more credible?

Re: Ask HN: Do you still use UML?

#182
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any tool in particular that you suggest to make diagrams? Or maybe just pen and paper? I tried StarUML 2 and it's ok but I found it slightly clunky (it also does not have a realtime collaboration feature as far as I know, that would be nice to have when your team is remote IMHO)

White board it, modeling should be a group activity. Everyone should contribute their ideas so we can converge towards one mental model. If I'm working with 1 or 2 developer, we can cluster around a table and use pen and paper. I only use professional tools if I'm going to be giving presentation or wish to store it for long term. In Linux there is modelio, and there is also Visual Paradigm which is available on most…

thanks

Re: Ask HN: Do you still use UML?

#184
I would say it really depends... There are UML diagram generators with whcih you might want to integrate (e.g., PlantUML) that would meet the needs of someone creating documentation. Alternately, they may use their own UML tool (or a free one like Eclipse Papyrus) to create the diagrams they need and then extract those as pictures that you can import.

IMHO, adding full UML support is crazy for your application and would potentially add years of development.

Even adding simple, non-model based UML creation would be a significant burden if you are a small company. Plus, there might be open source generators or generators you could call programatically to generate the images desired.

But first, you probably need to better understand your client's actual needs. I have doubts that they would need all the UML diagrams...

Re: Ask HN: Do you still use UML?

#185
post #142

The 3 actually useful diagrams that I have seen in the last 10 years are: - Sequence - Entity relationship - State chart All 3 are useful for communicating protocols, schemas and state charts. Sequence diagrams are probably the most ubiquitous, and very useful in explaining protocols. Even RFC-s have them. Relationship diagrams are often (ab)used to visualize relationships between tables in SQL databases. While it's…

Actually, ERD are not specifically supported by base UML, but an approximation can be done using class diagraams and, with a little specialization (profile) the rest of ERD can be represented.

Re: Ask HN: Do you still use UML?

#186
post #54

UML can be a great communication tool in specific situations but when it becomes a religion your organization will suffer. I'm older than most here, drank the cool-aid that predicted code generation and round tripping but spit it back up before the poison had a chance to set in. A bonus comment for the youngin's ... When you hear that some new system will allow "the common man" to write his own software without devel…

Code generation with 2D diagrams is a productivity killer. There is a reason why digital circuit design has shifted to use of HDLs. You can be far more productive describing behavior in text than shepherding boxes around on a schematic and slavishly working to make the interconnect look nice. With text, it's easy to make modifications. You have the power of VCS tools available to track changes. It's easier to partiti…

Which is also a reason your are seeing more textual front-ends for UML.

Re: Ask HN: Do you still use UML?

#187

I absolutely hate UML and regard the associated tools as time swallowing abominations and the main advocates that I encountered as the worst kind of snake oil salespeople. Of course, other people's experience may differ - but I largely thought it was a big con.

If those advocates were sellers, then they were all proposing this as a panacea - and no tool is a panacea. Anybody who promises to solve all your problems is selling snake oil.

Re: Ask HN: Do you still use UML?

#188

I absolutely hate UML and regard the associated tools as time swallowing abominations and the main advocates that I encountered as the worst kind of snake oil salespeople. Of course, other people's experience may differ - but I largely thought it was a big con.

Rational Rose was terrible at UX, but surprisingly it was a de-facto standard.

To be fair, every modeling tool had terrible UX at that time - save for some domain-specific ones (e.g., NI had a great tool, but it only worked with their hardware components).
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