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Video Games Are Boring

gamesindustry.biz

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Re: Video Games Are Boring

#311

Post by edem »

GFK_of_xmaspast wrote: post #90
edem wrote: post #17

I've been playing games since Commodore 64. I've played through Amiga, early PC, Playstation, etc games. The problem is that gaming became an industry and the companies behind AAA games want you to spend as much time playing their game as possible. The 100% fun of Chaos Engine which took 4 hours became 150 hours of boring side-questing (I look at you Skyrim). The somach-wrenching action of Freespace 2 became endless…

> ... took 4 hours became 150 hours of boring side-questing ... There's a lot of lifestyle gamers who get angry if games are 'too short'.

Short is better than "noisy" for me. If i have to grind 80% of the time to play 20% of the time (I look at you EVE) it is just a waste of time.

Re: Video Games Are Boring

#312

Post by tnones »

ZeroGravitas wrote: post #116
tnones wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Kim Kardashian game is a hollow pay-to-win slugfest full of time locks, that made millions just by slapping on a celebrity face. If we are supposed to dislike video games that are boring and don't color outside the lines, as the author suggests, then that would be a pretty good candidate. The Walking Dead on the other hand is an expertly written, uniquely styled game, which is tied-in to its source IP pretty much…

I can see differences, but when you sneered at the Kardashian game, the reasons you gave applied just as much to a Telltale Walking Dead game, or a Lego Batman game. So now you're clarifying that you're sneering at the Kardashian game because it's boring, and it made too much money from all the people who play it all the time.

Where are you getting this hate for IP tie-ins from? I was talking about game mechanics and _soulless_ cash grabs. The opposite of The Walking Dead and the Lego games.

First off, the KK:H financial success isn't laudable, it's simply predictable and how companies like Zynga got rich off pilfering the creative ideas of others. All free-to-play gambling games, and gambling in general, make their money from a tiny subset of their audience who are addicted and spend enormous amounts of money to keep playing in the face of artificial barriers. The games rely on word of mouth via free players to reach those juicy targets. The celebrity face was the difference between just another copy-cat and a viral success with tons of media coverage.

Second, to deride "pseudo-masculine bullshit" in search of rich meaning while considering Kardashian beyond reproach, that makes the author's already shaky premises particularly lacking in self-awareness. The game is the actual embodiment of vapid celebrity and appearance-obsessed femininity on top of being an archetype of soulless box ticking.

But see, there's nothing _wrong_ with making games that play to stereotypical female interests either, if done well. Compare for example to the Desperate Housewives game, which is a Sims spin-off aimed squarely at female players who want juicy drama and catty social dynamics. It involves real storytelling, while the gamified aspects are only there to support the player agency.

Those games already exist. The author instead preferred to spin a tale of female oppression at the hands of white men, while promoting her own unproven studio. Color me unsurprised.

Re: Video Games Are Boring

#313

Post by namaemuta »

cloudjacker wrote: post #231
ngokevin wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or Firewatch.

Firewatch is a really big step in the right direction. But try playing it as a child or a woman marginally interested in a gaming experience and you get unnecessary swearing and tropes from a man's perspective. Oh well. I wish there was possibility for a mode. Not one you are forced to select, but one based on a profile, more akin to the predictive one advertisers already have on you.

Are you implying that women don't swear? and why does a child have to play this game? this game is obviously oriented to a mature audience. Not all the games have to be suitable for everybody. If not, the only games available would be pixar-like games.

Re: Video Games Are Boring

#314

Post by roddux »

falcolas wrote: post #56
daemonk wrote: post #28

I really miss gameplay driven games rather than presentation/story driven games. I think both are great, but I really enjoy the technical intricacies of street fighter or mega-man games.

They're still out there. Ori and the Blind Forest, BlazBlue, Dark/Demons Souls, Shadow Complex, Dust, and more indy games than I could shake a stick at. One of the tricks is to avoid the internet while trying to solve the games. It's amazing the difference a guide-free run makes.

I was waiting for somebody to mention Dark Souls! It has by far and away one of the best combat systems I've ever played. Amazing game.

Re: Video Games Are Boring

#315

Post by arpa »

tomdell wrote: post #219

One of the main problems with single-player video games is that a lot of people work alone and don't want to spend their free time doing something that feels kind of like work, but doesn't seem to offer much in return. They'd rather spend their time socializing or doing something that will improve them in an obvious way. A personal anecdote - I loved single-player video games until I was 18, but I stopped cold at tha…

As a counter-point, there are so many genres of VG that at this point there really is a game for everyone. Sure, we all grow up and our tastes change, like in music and movies - you just rent this one movie you enjoyed so much when you were 18, and now it's just a cringefest. Doesn't mean, tho, that you dislike movies or that movies are not for everyone.

I can and do relate with the sentiment that Diablo is an endless grind - but that's because it always was. Just like duke nukem always was a parody of action heroes and doom never really had a story; our younger selves simply chose to ignore that for some reason. Now we're a bit older and really spoiled - we want triple A graphics together with a solid story that, if it were a movie, would get an oscar, minimal grind and repetitiveness (looking at you, borderlands, you're just teeedious). And you know what, there are games that provide. The "walking sims" for your storyline needs, say, Firewatch; Frictional studios games to make you miserable; Stanley Parable and The Beginners' guide for your mindfuck needs; Sunless Sea if you don't mind an occasional grind and presentation from 1999 - but you're rewarded with lush writing that alone makes the game worth playing... Hell, even if the good writing's not your cup of tea, you still can enjoy such beauties as Braid, or great weirdnesses such as Antichamber.

We have this whole area polished to a place we don't even have to play - there are countless "let's play" videos, forum threads and i bet there even is a "let's play" podcast somewhere out there.

I feel the point of the article is that people who enjoy this art (notice the lack of quotes) are looked down by the people who "don't like video games" and think that candy crush or call of duty are the pinnacle of modern gaming. There's no way they'd leave that zone of comfort and give a good game a shot instead of insisting people do "something that is obviously more meaningful". The author claims that the "industry" produces "boring games", and she is partially right - games that are interesting for working adults that do not want to spend time in trivial pursuits do not get enough exposure. Should they? Probably not. Should the notion that games are a waste of time, a grind, a simulacrum of work and totally useless, change? Probably yes.

Re: Video Games Are Boring

#316

Post by intended »

marcus_holmes wrote: post #210
emp_zealoth wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Simple - don't buy AAA (apart from very few select titles) because 99% of those is rehashed garbage and cliches Buy gamess from small studios, made by a few people or even one guy, usually a lot of them are in Steam Early Access (yes, it is risky, some of them get abandoned or just never improve much) For me this is like a reneissance in gaming. Have a look at Factorio, Starbound, Rimworld, Banished, Pillars of Etern…

I've been playing XCom2 a lot recently, and it occurred to me that I was caring waaay too much about my soldiers. Then it occurred to me that actually the part of the game I was enjoying most was looking after my soldiers. I have a sniper that never hits anything, ever, and I've started having little pep talk with her before each mission, trying to get her to buck her game up and be a useful member of the team. Shoot…

If caring for your incompetents is fun, then dwarf fortress or the genre of DF-lite will be for you.

Re: Video Games Are Boring

#317

Post by cheiVia0 »

jamesgeck0 wrote: post #179
orly_bookz wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? Skyrim, the game where if you place an apple in a bucket on a guy's counter and go do 200 hours of quests and come back... the apple is still there. That's not a persistent world? That's pretty much the only point of that engine. Granted, player agency in Skyrim is pushed way down compared to earlier TES titles but you can still affect the game world by choosing quests, choosing sides, Hell, Morrowind allowed…

The Elder Scrolls games through Oblivion (and I think Skyrim?) are not permanently persistent. The game does eventually do garbage collection, and only some places in the world are safe from it. This is why every major town/city has a house you can buy; your collection of every cheese wheel in the game may not persist forever if you leave it in some random chest in a shop.

In real life, your cheese collection may not persist either if you leave it in some random chest in a shop ;)

Re: Video Games Are Boring

#318

Post by _RedPanda »

edblarney wrote: post #188
Nadya wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>That said: the industry is really built around conventions and culture. Guys making games for guys. Marketing to guys. The entire culture skews guys. Then there is roughly 50% of the population not being serviced. Hire some female talent, get some investments on your easy-to-market product, and make yourself rich via a successful business catering to the female demographic of gamers. If one fails in such a large, un…

"Hire some female talent, get some investments on your easy-to-market product, and make yourself rich via a successful business catering to the female demographic of gamers." It's not remotely that easy. If it were, they would have done it long ago.

>It's not remotely that easy.

So why do you guys feel so entitled to have games especially marketed at the female demographic?

Nobody should go out of their way and create a game that is catering to the female demographic, just so some internet feminists can feel better about themselves and afterwards not even buy/play the game

Re: Video Games Are Boring

#319

Post by timje1 »

panglott wrote: post #119
TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't imagine realistic social gaming given today's technology. Relationships are complicated - much more complicated than game graphics. A system that accurately modelled human relationships would probably need to be within throwing distance of passing the Turing test. One reason the industry keeps churning through the same ideas is because they're relatively tractable. Graphics, physics, texturing etc, are all so…

Lots of CRPGs understand that gamers want to explore different identities, and thus have strong character customization. But conflict in the game is often framed around violence and murder. It shouldn't surprise anyone that lots of people find violence and gore simply disturbing and don't want to engage it. In fact, that's what happened with the author's cousin and Skyrim: she was playing it obsessively until her "fr…

This actually offended me the most about Dragon Age : Inquisition - the way that every interaction with the world seemed to be 'hit it with your sword'.

Early on you find a region which contains groups of Templars battling rogue sorcerers, so I thought that you'd get some interesting interactions where you have to pick a side, or play mediator, lending your strength to one of these opposed factions. Instead we got the worst kind of videogame logic - both sides were hostile to me, permanently, with no chance of talking to either of them. Approach within a certain distance and they'll attack you until they or you are dead - the sort of mindless hostility that can only be excused in zombie games. And to top it all off, both sides kept respawning after I killed them, so their silly, pointless tussles go on indefinitely.

Re: Video Games Are Boring

#320

Post by advantark2 »

munchbunny wrote: post #209
advantark2 wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The idea that games are made for guys is in itself sexist, is it not? They're just games, and you're free to interpret them however you'd like.

Maybe it is? It's hard to say, because it depends on what kind of question you're asking. Are you saying that the statement "games are made for guys" requires you to first believe that there are qualities of games that men inherently like more than women? Or are you asking about an observational statement that games seem to be designed to target men as buyers by catering to traditionally male interests? I think you c…

Honestly, I agree with the statement that games cater towards men more, but I like playing devil's advocate. I personally believe that psychological differences between men and women make men enjoy video games more, and it's not something that we should attempt to break down because of equality. There are differences between genders in every culture of the world. Instead of trying to blur the line between the genders, I feel we should embrace and celebrate those differences.

> I think we'd generally agree that those portrayals of women are problematic.

Why is it problematic if a game does this? Is it because it makes the game player sexist? If so, then it has the same argument that people make against violent video games in that it makes people violent, even though the data doesn't back that up.

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