If you are silly enough to think that your light bulbs need to connect to the internet or to each other, you deserve what you get.
I'm glad I bought up a stockpile of incandescents before they were banned.
IoT Goes Nuclear: Creating a ZigBee Chain Reaction
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Re: IoT Goes Nuclear: Creating a ZigBee Chain Reaction
#52If you are silly enough to think that your light bulbs need to connect to the internet or to each other, you deserve what you get. I'm glad I bought up a stockpile of incandescents before they were banned.
I get your point about internet connected light bulbs, but is there a particular reason you selected incandescents over other more energy efficient bulbs that don't have IoT capabilities?
Re: IoT Goes Nuclear: Creating a ZigBee Chain Reaction
#53Earlier quoted context omitted.
Tragedy of the Commons really means "the structure of a market failed to produce the desired outcome". The common good may be the victim, but the market is the culprit. The solution of course is alternate economic structures that respect the commons. The distinguished economist Elinor Ostrom wrote a whole book called Governing the Commons which presents real-life alternatives to markets for commons-like economic acti…
I thought neoliberalism was more about contorting society until they meet the needs of the market.
Two sides of the same process: force markets to exist where they didn't or shouldn't.
Re: IoT Goes Nuclear: Creating a ZigBee Chain Reaction
#54If you are silly enough to think that your light bulbs need to connect to the internet or to each other, you deserve what you get. I'm glad I bought up a stockpile of incandescents before they were banned.
I get your point about internet connected light bulbs, but is there a particular reason you selected incandescents over other more energy efficient bulbs that don't have IoT capabilities?
the quality of light from your average energy bulb is typically terrible. I like warm light and whilst I know I can't see infra-red frequencies I want to see a concentration of light towards that end of the spectrum. It just makes for a much more relaxed feeling.
I stockpiled too. and I have dimmers on pretty much every lamp (including the toilet), so the bulbs last for a very long time. when you don't burn them on full wattage they last much much longer.
Re: IoT Goes Nuclear: Creating a ZigBee Chain Reaction
#55Something cool: The Shamir here is the Shamir of RSA fame.
Re: IoT Goes Nuclear: Creating a ZigBee Chain Reaction
#56Clearly, absolutely no one saw this coming, nor did anyone warn us. :-) How else do you explain how woefully unprepared we are?
Tragedy of the commons. No individual manufacturer really cares about the issues created by the ecosystem of IoT, so they have no real incentive to address it.
How is this "tragedy of the commons"? The only "common" they are using is the RF spectrum, which they are presumably not polluting too badly or the FCC would start smashing down doors.
Let's not start claiming the internet itself somehow qualifies as a "common", because with common ownership rationally comes common censorship (as with the FCC and public broadcasts).
Re: IoT Goes Nuclear: Creating a ZigBee Chain Reaction
#57Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's a little hard to distinguish worthwhile warnings from the near-constant din of finger-wagging
What's great about this argument is how versatile it is. Climate change got you down? How about deforestation, or antibiotic overuse? Tired of people telling you not to write web applications in C? Your one liner seamlessly shuts down discussion in any of those debates! In fact: the finger-waggers have been right about this issue since approximately 1988, when Paul Graham's friend shut down much of the Internet with…
Admittedly I am now interested and, I apologize in advance if this is in the thread already and missed it (thanks poor vision!) but, would you happen to have a link or explainer as to this incident? Sounds very intriguing.
Edit: Sorry everyone! I just saw it! Thank you! For those who see this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morris_worm & this: https://www.cs.cornell.edu/courses/cs1110/2009sp/assignments...
Re: IoT Goes Nuclear: Creating a ZigBee Chain Reaction
#58Everything will be fine =) It's not even possible to get two ZigBee products from different manufacturers to operate (like a switch and a lamp). The attack can't succeed at what the industry's been failing for 10 years.
Ugh, this is too true. Standard indeed.
Re: IoT Goes Nuclear: Creating a ZigBee Chain Reaction
#59Earlier quoted context omitted.
Tragedy of the commons. No individual manufacturer really cares about the issues created by the ecosystem of IoT, so they have no real incentive to address it.
How is this "tragedy of the commons"? The only "common" they are using is the RF spectrum, which they are presumably not polluting too badly or the FCC would start smashing down doors. Let's not start claiming the internet itself somehow qualifies as a "common", because with common ownership rationally comes common censorship (as with the FCC and public broadcasts).
Seems unwise to reason backwards from your desired conclusion (commons implies censorship/regulation, so it can't be a commons).
Security is indeed a commons because the overall security of the ecosystem only benefits each person weakly, and so every actor rationally benefits by neglecting security.
External regulation isn't the only way to address commons problems. Manufacturers can see the writing on the wall and work together to solve issues, but only if the public pushes them to.
Re: IoT Goes Nuclear: Creating a ZigBee Chain Reaction
#60Philips may have fixed the vulnerability in an update, but that's insufficient if these devices don't have high update rates. I wonder how many years until there are fewer than 15000 vulnerable Hue devices in Paris... We should hold manufacturers accountable for not aggressively pushing security updates on their users.
>We should hold manufacturers accountable for not aggressively pushing security updates on their users. There's really no way to /force/ companies to support products they release like that. The company may not even exist a few years down the road. You could force them to release the firmware source so the users/community can patch it themselves but I don't see a way to do what you're saying.
If you could sue over security this wouldn't be an issue: we'd actually have a bug program that worked.
Also, the market would be harder to enter. I don't see a problem with this.