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Software Developers: how to get a raise without changing jobs

fearlesssalarynegotiation.com

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Re: Software Developers: how to get a raise without changing jobs

#31

Post by AnimalMuppet »

ffjffsfr wrote: post #17

> Bring more value to the company than what’s expected of you. Then ask to be compensated for it. Sorry but it doesn't always work like this. Sure, performing well makes it more likely for you to get a raise, but there is no guarantee. Perhaps performing well increases probability of you getting a raise. But it does not guarantee anything nor is it most important factor in computing this probability. Probabibility of…

No, it doesn't always work like that. It works that way enough of the time to be worth trying, though. Even if it doesn't get you a raise at your current job, having done things that add value gives you a better negotiating position for a different job.

Re: Software Developers: how to get a raise without changing jobs

#32

Post by hbt »

Yes, the classic "just world hypothesis" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just-world_hypothesis

If you "work harder", you will be compensated fairly. Of course, "work harder" is overrated now that work doesn't involve physical labor. "Work harder" has been replaced by "create more value".

The expectation is after you create more value for the owners, you will be compensated fairly. If you believe that, go talk to engineers who worked on startups as early employees and got screwed by investors, founders, managers etc.

Why? For many reasons:

- the owners didn't think you could do any damage to their reputation and impact hiring prospects after they screwed you

- after the company grew, you were now interchangeable

- needed to raise more money and dilute your shares

- you were no longer as valuable to the next stage of the company

- They didn't believe you could replicate the value you created again

etc.

Of course, founders, investors and friends stick around regardless of the stage of the company or the value of their contribution. Why? Because they OWN it, they have power.

Do not confuse performance for power. The only time I got a significant raise (I mean 4X the pay) is when I had significant leverage. Opportunism, self interest and politics rule business.

People are not gonna give you more money if they can avoid it.

Re: Software Developers: how to get a raise without changing jobs

#33

Post by byoung2 »

JustSomeNobody wrote: post #29
geofft wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What happens if your boss goes to their boss and says, "Hey, one of my employees is planning to jump ship for salary reasons, can we do anything here?"

You typically only get to play that card once and you'd better be looking to leave in the next two years anyway.

Definitely true, but in software engineering it's typical to have short stints anyway. If you change companies every few years, why not play this card all the time before jumping ship?

Re: Software Developers: how to get a raise without changing jobs

#34

Post by cgore »

byoung2 wrote: post #30
AcerbicZero wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've worked at a number of places which had this basic policy. Upper management gives middle management a % of their budget for merit increases, and its up to the middle manager to break it up how they see fit. While you can certainly try to negotiate increases in compensation outside of this, I've never seen it happen successfully.

I've never seen it happen successfully. I've done it at least half a dozen times in my career. I was told "the maximum we can give is a $7k raise since there is a fixed pool for raises in the department." I said if I quit and you have to replace me, not only will you have to hire 2 devs to replace me (as I pulled dev and sysops duty) and pay them market salaries, you will have to pay a recruiter 20-30%. They still wo…

It's often a bit true though. I bet your direct manager didn't have that authority himself and had to go up higher and justify it to either his boss or his boss's boss.

Re: Software Developers: how to get a raise without changing jobs

#35

Post by _puk »

byoung2 wrote: post #30
AcerbicZero wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've worked at a number of places which had this basic policy. Upper management gives middle management a % of their budget for merit increases, and its up to the middle manager to break it up how they see fit. While you can certainly try to negotiate increases in compensation outside of this, I've never seen it happen successfully.

I've never seen it happen successfully. I've done it at least half a dozen times in my career. I was told "the maximum we can give is a $7k raise since there is a fixed pool for raises in the department." I said if I quit and you have to replace me, not only will you have to hire 2 devs to replace me (as I pulled dev and sysops duty) and pay them market salaries, you will have to pay a recruiter 20-30%. They still wo…

Honest question, did that affect your working relationship with your manager / their manager, or did it work out well long term for everyone?

Re: Software Developers: how to get a raise without changing jobs

#36

Post by geofft »

JustSomeNobody wrote: post #29
geofft wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What happens if your boss goes to their boss and says, "Hey, one of my employees is planning to jump ship for salary reasons, can we do anything here?"

You typically only get to play that card once and you'd better be looking to leave in the next two years anyway.

If the option of giving people nontrivial raises is unblocked, you only need to play it once. It is harder to play it this way, of course, but once you have an exception / your boss has more budget / etc., you can hopefully just do normal raise negotiation.

Re: Software Developers: how to get a raise without changing jobs

#37

Post by imaginenore »

Don't ask, don't get. And asking is the only thing you can do. Almost never will your boss/manager approach you and offer you a significant raise, even if you're a kickass developer who is crucial to the company. Just ask.

Still, asking will only get you that far. I got $80->$90/hr raise by asking. But then I got a 40% increase by changing jobs.

And if you're consulting, and are confident enough, you can just raise your prices by a lot. I once was very busy, and told the client that I would freeze my other project if they pay $150/hr, and they agreed to it. Win-win. I get more money, they get the product.

Re: Software Developers: how to get a raise without changing jobs

#38

Post by darklajid »

Like in a lot of things: Context matters.

I can look at SV salaries and only shake my head. Random 'jump between jobs every 6 month if needed to improve your net worth' advice from single mid-twenties (not talking about the author, no clue about his background. But it feels that this is the general attitude around salary improvement here) is not globally applicable.

And the author basically says 'invest in the company and THEN ask for the reward'. He's ignoring the 'or else' part. I am 100% sure that a healthy portion of envy and fear is part of my rejection, so let's say I'm coming in with a rather negative attitude. But that article is completely and absolutely devoid of content.

"Work harder, then ask for a better salary based on your excellent performance" isn't exactly worth a blog article. Writing down the year over year effects of N percent in salary is trivial maths.

He's followed by Patio on Twitter, so I give the author the benefit of the doubt and believe that he has sound advice to offer, a decent idea about negotiation (with the 'context matters' caveat). But this article seems .. a fluff piece?

Re: Software Developers: how to get a raise without changing jobs

#39

Post by troels »

SadWebDeveloper wrote: post #27
JoshDoody wrote: post #16

Just saw a huge spike in traffic from HN and thought I would stop by to see what all the fuss is about. Glad to see people reading the article and having a productive conversation in the comments. Happy to answer questions if you have them, and I'll hop into the comments as well.

So you are the reason there are engineers that values themselves so high, that when they reach the market again they ask as much's salary as if they were CEO's?

Are you implying that a CEO is more valuable than a good engineer?

Re: Software Developers: how to get a raise without changing jobs

#40

Post by imaginenore »

dxxvi wrote: post #20
xchaotic wrote: post #10

You should always approach the negotiations with an upper hand - an offer from somewhere else. If it doesn't go well, just move.

You'll be given the raise, but you'll be let go very soon.

Being let go (not fired) is awesome though. You get severance pay on top of your new higher salary. So you go and find an even higher-paying gig.
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