Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Video Games Are Boring

gamesindustry.biz

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

161–170 of 342 posts

Re: Video Games Are Boring

#161

Post by joesmo »

In the last few years, since the Walking Dead series came out, my sister has gotten into videogames for the first time really in her life and we play together. This was not the case when we were kids. It is not the case for most videogames. But games like that, games that are simple and playable by players with virtually no controller skill, games with depth, story, and character appeal to some non-gamers like my sister in ways that no game before has. They appeal to me more than any other type of game and I've been gaming for decades.

The biggest factor, I'd say, is how frustrating a game is and how easy it is for someone who doesn't regularly play games to pick up. If a game requires a lot of hand-eye coordination, a lot of repetition, a lot of dying, it will not work. Period. I have no doubt you can do tons of studies to prove it. People like my sister are not interested in trying to find the skeleton key inside the blue ruby inside the giant book inside the treasure chest so that they can open some door to get a battery to operate an elevator so they can continue the game. The more nonsensical the gameplay, the less non gamers are interested in it. This pretty much eliminates 95-99% of videogames as frustrating garbage (and let's face it, for people without controller skills, they are nothing more than that).

It's amazing to me to see how many games fit into that remaining 1-5% of games and how fun they can be. I'm not interested in being frustrated anymore either, so other than sports games, those are mostly the only games I play or have played in the last few years. Some companies are realizing this and making great games for a variety of people. Others are making the same old garbage that even videogame veterans like me are frankly sick and tired of. Then they wonder why people hate their videogames. Like with most things, the answer is obvious.

Re: Video Games Are Boring

#162

Post by dahart »

saint_fiasco wrote: post #158
dahart wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I also think it was less accurate because I believe the feminism angle is a red herring. How does that reflect on me? I didn't bring up feminism, @tnones did. > Like, suppose I complained that videogames are rarely marketed to poor people ... maybe I should support small indie game studios instead of complaining I don't understand where you're going with this. There is a class bias in the video games market, as wit…

I know that part didn't reflect on you. You asked about my opinion on the accuracy, and the thing we were trying to be accurate about was OP's article, right? You know how men make more money than women? And how white people make more money than black people? We should expect then that more white men will buy luxury goods like videogames, right? No additional sexism needs to be postulated, is what I'm saying. You are…

> the thing we were trying to be accurate about was OP's article, right?

No, you said my comment was less accurate, because feminism, not that the article was less accurate. Except I didn't bring up feminism. Nor did Brie. @tnones did, his comments were inaccurate.

> You are double-counting the evidence.

How so? I was disagreeing with @tnones, who said there's "nothing" to support Brie's point of view. "Video games already have a diverse, demographically blind audience". "They're class and race-blind..."

Those statements are factually incorrect, and my comment was simply addressing that. I provided evidence to someone who just denied that there are any biases in games at all.

You have just acknowledged race, class, and sex biases, and it sounds like you also disagree with @tnones and agree with me.

> We are on the same side, some people just think the author is doing it wrong... her complaints sound misguided and superfluous... she was generalizing from a small sample and her theory might be wrong. (not the practice, though, since she is an actual game designer)

This sounds so presumptuous to me. Brie was a lead programmer (not designer) on Child of Light & Assassin's creed. She has more than a decade of experience leading teams making the very games you're defending, and your conclude her remarks are superfluous based on some internet commentary??

There is data that supports what she's saying, it's easy to find with almost no effort, if you look. Publishers agree with what she's saying, I know because I've talked to some. Like Brie, they're also trying to find healthier markets that attract a broader base and appeal to women as well as minorities, old people, poor people, etc.

You said her remarks are holding gamers back. What did you mean? How are you being held back? Why don't you share your experiences that shed some light on your point of view, or point us to some data that backs up your position that the industry is going the right direction and that Brie's is misguided?

Re: Video Games Are Boring

#163

Post by trobertson »

falcolas wrote: post #49
arkitaip wrote: post #8

This captures a lot of what I've been feeling lately. I can't stand most games, they just make me anxious and I will quit playing them after a few hours or even minutes. Too much stress and surface experiences has had me looking in the other direction. Take, for example, GTA 5. I've probably spent more hours riding cars and bikes in GTA5's beautiful countryside and outback than playing actual missions. Just hours and…

The sandbox style of game is your ticket to bliss then. Wandering through London in Assassin's Creed Unity. Climbing mountains in Skyrim. Traversing the landscape with a grapple/parachute in Just Cause. Plundering the high seas in Assassin's Creed Black Flag. Exploring Mordor in Shadows of Mordor. Driving through the city and countryside in Need for Speed. Flying the endless black in Elite Dangerous. There are freque…

It's funny that every single game you mentioned is a "theme park" open world game, and exactly zero of them are "sandbox" open world games.

Re: Video Games Are Boring

#164

Post by forkLding »

I'm a male individual and whats said here really resonates with me. I have never been that interested with fighting/action games, Fallout has always been my most favourite game and its less the combat but really the open-world adventure that appeals.

Re: Video Games Are Boring

#165

Post by dahart »

MrZongle2 wrote: post #160
dahart wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, I'm not sure I've ever heard of it, but I'll check it out. I played thousands upon thousands of hours of Quake 3 back in the day. Possibly my favorite game recently was FEZ. Journey, mentioned in the article, was beautiful. These days I'm as much a sucker for online Boggle or Sudoku as any console game.

FYI, Dwarf Fortress is an ASCII-only roguelike, and the learning curve is as steep as the graphics are primitive. But the emergent gameplay is amazing. If the inconsistent UI or graphics give you pause, I'd suggest taking a look at Rimworld, currently in Early Access on Steam (or available directly from the developer's site). It has some of the deep qualities of DF but is a bit more forgiving.

Thanks for the tip, I'll check out Rimworld too!

Primitive graphics are no barrier at all. I am a graphics programmer and graphics lover through and through. But I can say with some confidence that graphics only matter sometimes, and even then are only a part of what makes any game good.

I saw a great talk at GDC many years ago that had a study of what makes good games good and "realistic", and graphics was 7th or 8th on the list. The number one item on the list was how well players understood their own identity in the game, whether they felt like they fit in and knew what to do. Such an interesting and important and IMO underrated piece of gaming psychology.

Re: Video Games Are Boring

#166

Post by Nadya »

advantark2 wrote: post #155
Nadya wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>That said: the industry is really built around conventions and culture. Guys making games for guys. Marketing to guys. The entire culture skews guys. Then there is roughly 50% of the population not being serviced. Hire some female talent, get some investments on your easy-to-market product, and make yourself rich via a successful business catering to the female demographic of gamers. If one fails in such a large, un…

Why is it that female devs would be required to make a game that women would like?

Because the argument is that men aren't capable of doing so [0]. I don't believe that is the case, but it is the argument being hinted at. It is also a very common argument.

Re: Video Games Are Boring

#167

Post by saint_fiasco »

dahart wrote: post #162
saint_fiasco wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know that part didn't reflect on you. You asked about my opinion on the accuracy, and the thing we were trying to be accurate about was OP's article, right? You know how men make more money than women? And how white people make more money than black people? We should expect then that more white men will buy luxury goods like videogames, right? No additional sexism needs to be postulated, is what I'm saying. You are…

> the thing we were trying to be accurate about was OP's article, right? No, you said my comment was less accurate, because feminism, not that the article was less accurate. Except I didn't bring up feminism. Nor did Brie. @tnones did, his comments were inaccurate. > You are double-counting the evidence. How so? I was disagreeing with @tnones, who said there's "nothing" to support Brie's point of view. "Video games a…

Brie did bring up feminism. Or rather, she uncritically brought up the white male gamer stereotype, which is worse. That is the "feminist shtick" that tnones was complaining about.

I acknowledge bias in who pays for videogames, not who plays them. My friends and I play lots of videogames but we don't show up in any publisher's radar because we are poor and play mostly old games, used games and pirated games. We are fine with that and do not write blog posts complaining that the gaming industry discriminates against poor people.

We still play more than many rich people, we just play different things.

Brie is a very good designer but (by her own story) bad at giving gaming recommendations to her friends. Those are separate skills that do not transfer well. She learned the wrong lesson from her experience when she blamed the sexist culture instead of her own inability to understand her friend's tastes. To her credit she also learned a correct lesson: "It wasn't about answering them; it was about asking them".

As for my own experiences, I think they would bore you. Where I come from we have our own petty dramas like this game journalist for a local paper who means well but is so cringey that it ends up reinforcing the basement-dweller stereotypes. This worries us because where I come from games aren't seen as a high-status upper-middle-class luxury, but rather as a low-status diversion and escape from reality (kind of like opiate for the masses). It feels like an entirely different situation that someone like Brie, who complains unironically about a "a state of constant shock, of constant stimulation", would not understand.

Re: Video Games Are Boring

#168

Post by alva »

At least it is clear who will be the final boss in whatever game he makes. The most evil, oppressive, disgusting, disgraceful, exploiting, aggressive thing there is...

Can you beat.. The White Western Male??

I am sick of all of this. There is gender parity in video gamers. There is huge amount of diversity in video game titles for whoever wants them. Think you have spotted a gap in the market? Great, make your billions, others will follow very, very quickly.

"For years I've been bored of trying to prove to my colleagues that women are human, that women aren't too unpredictable to study, that what women like is not less worthy nor boring nor wrong nor hard to understand. That it's garbage to say that women don't need deep, rich experiences."

The disdain for The White Male in this is ridiculous.

"For years I've been bored of trying to prove to my colleagues that women are human"

Does anyone reading this believe that his colleagues believe women are not human or worthy of respect?

This person is aiming straight for bullseye of a niche, vocal man hating demographic in order to make money.

Re: Video Games Are Boring

#169

Post by mxfh »

rickdale wrote: post #41
arkitaip wrote: post #8

This captures a lot of what I've been feeling lately. I can't stand most games, they just make me anxious and I will quit playing them after a few hours or even minutes. Too much stress and surface experiences has had me looking in the other direction. Take, for example, GTA 5. I've probably spent more hours riding cars and bikes in GTA5's beautiful countryside and outback than playing actual missions. Just hours and…

For me a big part of games being boring is the lack of cheats and codes that come with the game. Developers/Game companies have decided HOW they want me to play the game and that irks the crap out of me. Take for example GTA5, I can only turn on invincibility for 5 minutes without having to reapply the code. What is the point of the limit? Can't I define the way I'd like to play the game? Sometimes cheating is fun an…

The sense of achievement just fades off with age. For a lot of games equal time sunk with progress(, without going all in on the fun of grinding, thats something different for me), most games mechanics just start to feel like the artificial speed bumps they are, only meant to stretch or distract from a hopefully existing story and setting.

Game progress of story-heavy offline games should be unlockable at will without importing save games. Or there should be some kind of an AI play mode, where you only take over that autopilot if you seem interested or just like to watch.

For most linear games with an actual story a youtube replay, including fast forwards, will be as good as the thing itself. This might as well explain a part of the let's play success.

Re: Video Games Are Boring

#170

Post by Nadya »

arkitaip wrote: post #8

This captures a lot of what I've been feeling lately. I can't stand most games, they just make me anxious and I will quit playing them after a few hours or even minutes. Too much stress and surface experiences has had me looking in the other direction. Take, for example, GTA 5. I've probably spent more hours riding cars and bikes in GTA5's beautiful countryside and outback than playing actual missions. Just hours and…

>Take, for example, GTA 5. I've probably spent more hours riding cars and bikes in GTA5's beautiful countryside and outback than playing actual missions. Just hours and hours of riding during rain or sunshine, dawn or dusk, in the city or the most remote mountains. It's beautiful and serene and made me realize that I don't really need dozens of hours of frantic gameplay.

You sound like you'd love the mostly open-world, graphic-centric (MMO)RPG genre! Something like Black Desert Online or FF14 Online. Where you can optionally focus on the story here or there and are mostly free to explore the world (although areas that outlevel you may be a bit dangerous...)

    [0] http://i.imgur.com/oV4smNW.png
    [1] http://i.imgur.com/XqGjx5e.jpg
    [2] http://i.imgur.com/lpJ272N.jpg
    [3] http://i.imgur.com/1w9yCy2.jpg
    [4] http://i.imgur.com/QCRQLIP.jpg
Post reply on HN