Live data from Hacker News

Soylent Thinks It Found What Was Making People Sick: Algae

bloomberg.com

61–70 of 341 posts

Re: Soylent Thinks It Found What Was Making People Sick: Algae

#61
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>"This is an important observation, and one that deserves some serious and deep reflection" From my perspective as someone who studied drug development and testing heavily in university, and now works as a programmer for medical ehr (hospital) software, I don't particularly think they're being unethical. The typical Phase 1 trial for a NME (new molecular entity; a new novel drug) is basically giving young dudes some…

Can you expand on how HIPAA and PHI impact testing? That sounds interesting and important.

The amount of information a patient generates while staying at the hospital is pretty immense. Vital signs, lab results like imaging data, lab results like blood tests, documentation created by every single professional who sees the patient, diagnosis data, financial/billing data, medication/pharmaceutical data, an insane amount of regulation check box filling things like as a random example, the CCD - Continuity of Care Document. As they move from ER outpatient to inpatient observation to outpatient ambulatory (or whatever unique pathway they take entering a hospital and returning to their primary care physician or homecare/hospice), new accounts are created, diagnoses entered, complicated compounding medications evaluated and modified.

This information is generated by real physicians, real nurses, real aides, etc, in actual care environments. People who trained for over a decade to understand what they're doing.

I trained for a very long time be a programmer, and I have extensive biology education.

But when testing my code, how can I emulate a PhD MD oncologist? How can I emulate a certified Nurse Practitioner, a Home Health Aide or a Licensed Nurse Practitioner? How can I generate an enormous amount of valid, real-world medical data for my test patient? I can learn that coumadin + aspirin creates a drug interaction and is a big no-no for I50.x style heart failure patients. But that's just one little trope I can repeat. There's 10,000 more things they do on a daily basis that I'll never grok.

The short answer is that I cannot. I use the programs, I enter things, I learn and do my best to emulate what my users do, but many of them have spent more time learning and perfecting their job than I have been alive. Plus, I don't have ten millions dollars worth of hospital equipment to generate real data with, to interface with, just various abstractions/test code we use when testing.

In the case of HIPAA/PHI, if there was more freedom to use protected health information, I wouldn't have to emulate medical professionals, I could copy real patient data and test my code against a production database.

But for the ultimate safety of the patients in our care, protected patient data is only allowed in 2 very secure messaging systems we use, and literally no where else.

So it often falls to the other half of our programming staff, the support staff, to take our code, patch it to a real hospital test system (hospitals generally have a live system and a test system physically hosted in their facility), and test against actual patient data from within the hospitals own network. As an application programmer that option isn't really available to me.

So it's two fold: the difficulty of emulating the incredibly technically detailed behaviors of highly educated professionals when testing, and the inability to use real world data for in-house testing efforts prior to shipping code.

Re: Soylent Thinks It Found What Was Making People Sick: Algae

#63
post #36
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People are complex and sometimes have allergies or reactions to foods that they don't even know or understand. That's fine, but Soylent marketed the product as being suitable for everyone even if they had allergies. Soylent's words: > "For anyone that struggles with allergies, heartburn, acid reflux or digestion, has trouble controlling weight or cholesterol, or simply doesn't have the means to eat well, soylent is…

> That's fine, but Soylent marketed the product as being suitable for everyone even if they had allergies. Obviously there are caveats for their allergy claims. The first ingredient in Soylent is soy protein, and while it's not as common as peanut allergies there are definitely people that can't do soy: https://www.foodallergy.org/allergens/soy-allergy

But that's the point - they claim it's fine for everyone, even those with allergies, but then formulate the product with known allergens. And now, with the new formula, when people are complaining of sickness they're saying it's a potential allergy or sensitivity to algae.

Re: Soylent Thinks It Found What Was Making People Sick: Algae

#64
post #38

Part of the issue is their desire to keep the product vegan. Instead of using known-safe, health-promoting sources of polyunsaturated (O3/O6) fats like fish oil, they use algal sources, which have very little data supporting them as safe/effective sources of O3.

http://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/fish-oil-friend-or-foe-20...

There are other safe sources of omega 3's.

Re: Soylent Thinks It Found What Was Making People Sick: Algae

#65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Soylent will be using pulverized cricket protein in their next evolution of the product. It's so sustainable after all. In fact, it will be so sustainable and good for you that it will become a moral imperative, eventually enforced by law, that citizens consume (20%, 50%, 85%) of their daily caloric intake from Soylent sources unless religious or medical restrictions prevent them from doing so.

The downvoting is interesting. Perhaps they are not familiar with the efficiency of crickets as a protein source. Big Cricket Farms [1] in Youngstown, Ohio is moving in this direction. Partnership with Soylent would be a natural fit, since the physical characteristics of culinary crickets are still intimidating, whereas pulverized cricket protein poses no stigma. [1] http://bigcricketfarms.com/

I have a reptile and feed it crickets daily.

You can't simply hope crickets will be full of good stuff naturally. We need to "gut load" them and cover them with vitamin and calcium powder. We make them eat quality nutrients before feeding them to the reptiles. Otherwise they are only almost only empty calories and not very good for the animal's health.

We humans would simply eat what the crickets eat instead of eating the crickets themselves. We have no issues eating non-moving pray.

That being said, I do agree that insects should be added to our diet!

Re: Soylent Thinks It Found What Was Making People Sick: Algae

#66

Where is the FDA in all of this? I would hope that after the widespread issues with the product, they would have stepped in and blocked shipment until safety studies have been done that comply with regulations.

They're busy regulating life saving drugs. If we got rid of the FDA all together, there would be more competition for products like this, and companies would need to win the trust of consumers by providing real health study information.

Re: Soylent Thinks It Found What Was Making People Sick: Algae

#67
post #25

I'm still amazed people pay for this shit when fully-regulated formulated meal replacements have been around for years.

Do you have examples that are both not full of sugar and available to the general public at a reasonable cost?

http://www.rayandterry.com/products/more-categories/weight-l...

http://www.procapslabs.com/Products/Details/268447427/Secure...

Both have 5g net carbs per serving, but are intended more as a single meal replacement than something a person could solely subsist on.

Re: Soylent Thinks It Found What Was Making People Sick: Algae

#68

I'm still amazed people pay for this shit when fully-regulated formulated meal replacements have been around for years.

Maybe it's because you're entirely uninformed about the specific ingredients and macronutrient ratios of new products like Soylent vs old school meal replacements.

But enjoy your high fructose corn syrup slop Ensure / Jevity.

Re: Soylent Thinks It Found What Was Making People Sick: Algae

#69
post #4

Sounds like they have a bug in their "food stack" and this modification is like printf debugging - if no one gets sick then it was the algae, otherwise they will need to continue poking around to figure out what's wrong. What a silly game to play when people's health is at stake.

You can say the same thing about the food in any restaurant. I really don't understand the hate that's directed towards this product. Nobody was seriously injured, it was a relatively small number of people that got sick.

Soylent is trying to do something more ambitious than other packaged food manufacturers. It's not unreasonable to expect there to be some small hiccups. If you can't tolerate that, then don't buy it.

People get food poisoning randomly from restaurants all the time. And usually they can never figure otu exactly what it was that caused it, they just carry on and maybe get their rating lowered or license taken away if it keeps happening. Chipotle even just had the same problem.

Yes, they get a bunch of shit for it. But it's not like this is a problem that doesn't afflict the 'normal' food industry as well.

Post reply on HN