Time to Dump Time Zones • Hacker News Board

Re: Time to Dump Time Zones

#471

Post by knz » Mon, Nov 07, 2016, 4:17 PM UTC

darawk wrote: post #17

Hmm...this is an interesting idea. However, the core of the argument seems to be this: > “The economy — that’s all of us — would receive a permanent ‘harmonization dividend’ ”— the efficiency benefits that come from a unified time zone. But this editorial is pretty light on actually supporting that. The basic argument seems to be that it reduces 'translation costs'. But..does it? What about the benefits of being able…

> Overall, is there really an efficiency gain to be had here?

Formally adopting the metric system would probably be a better use of the capital that it would take to convince the average person to adjust a point of reference.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metric_system#/media/File:Metr...

I look forward to the inevitable responses about how base 12 is better than base 10...

Re: Time to Dump Time Zones

#472

Post by knz » Mon, Nov 07, 2016, 4:21 PM UTC

lucideer wrote: post #260

ProxCoques wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get the impression Americans don't use 24-hour clock much. In Europe it's pretty much standard if you want to communicate time reliably. Or am I mistaken about the American love of am/pm?

I find this comment unexpected, being Irish, as I would've associated the attachment to 12 hour intervals much more with here than with the US. But I guess it's a British colonial throwback thing; I'd be curious to hear of au/nz/ca/za/in/etc. habits.

24 hour time isn't unheard of in New Zealand but most people would use 12 hour time.

Re: Time to Dump Time Zones

#473

Post by knz » Mon, Nov 07, 2016, 4:22 PM UTC

astrodust wrote: post #345

kleigenfreude wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Overall, is there really an efficiency gain to be had here? Not immediately. Any change from the status quo hurts businesses. There is no require change to code, logic, data, etc. that "helps". You can, however, make changes that inflict serious pain but are good long-term. Here is the short list of those: * Everyone going fully metric and use ISO for everything not metric. This would help things not crash into Mar…

Metric is universal but for a few stubborn hold-outs.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metric_system#/media/File:Metr...

Re: Time to Dump Time Zones

#474

Post by knz » Mon, Nov 07, 2016, 4:23 PM UTC

kleigenfreude wrote: post #428

astrodust wrote: post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Metric is universal but for a few stubborn hold-outs.

Stubborn is a bit harsh. The UK Metrication Association in 2006 estimated the cost of converting road signs to be £80 million. Only the road signs. Now consider UK and the US as a whole- all of the cost to the government, businesses, non-profits, etc.

And yet nearly every other major developed country has managed to make the switch...

The issue of cost is not unique to America.

Re: Time to Dump Time Zones

#475

Post by boterock » Mon, Nov 07, 2016, 4:25 PM UTC

Asooka wrote: post #378

bluejekyll wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. Perfect. I've never seen that before. Thanks for sharing. It will never sell in the US though, the mere inclusion of Darwin will make it a political nightmare as people would be convinced we're atheists trying to kill their god.

Or, we use Latin names of numbers. So, Unusber, Duober, Tresber, Quattorber, Quinber, Sexber [rename as necessary for America], September, October, November, December, Undecimber, Duodecimber, Tredecimber.

four decembers would endorse extremely premature christmas decoration

Re: Time to Dump Time Zones

#476

Post by knz » Mon, Nov 07, 2016, 4:25 PM UTC

mvindahl wrote: post #460

There should be a single, unified time across the globe. It would greatly simplify matters. I propose something like Friday around five-ish in the afternoon.

There is - it's called UTC+0000!

Re: Time to Dump Time Zones

#477

Post by mhurron » Mon, Nov 07, 2016, 4:33 PM UTC

rocqua wrote: post #406

Houshalter wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

28 is perfect because it's divisible by 7. So every day lands on the same day of every month and every year. Every 1rst is a Sunday. But really, while we are on the topic of reform, is there any particular reason the week should be 7 days? Or that there should be a week at all? Time keeping is also weird. Base 24 and 60 is so arbitrary. Make it base ten, and you can express date and time easily. Right now is 6.976. T…

A 7 day work week seems to be optimal for most. Specifically, the 5 days on / 2 off. Apparently, medical staff working 10 / 4 have issues, and attempts at running e.g. 7/3 also don't go over very well.

That's only if a 40 hour week is the optimum. Since no one is really working 8 hours, 5 days a week, that's doubtful.

Re: Time to Dump Time Zones

#478

Post by logfromblammo » Mon, Nov 07, 2016, 4:39 PM UTC

bluejekyll wrote: post #160

minznerjosh wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This hits the nail on the head. Abandoning time zones would only make sense if there were no more need for time translation. But you'd still need to translate for the sake of biological clocks, and without time zones it would become more challenging to communicate that translation. I would be in favor of doing away with DST and also eschewing AM/PM in favor of a 24-hour clock. I'm surprised this article didn't mentio…

Yeah agree completely. And keeping zones is important to understand workdays. I wouldn't mind dropping named time zones completely in favor of UTC+Offset, I always end up looking that up, annoyingly. Or just name the zones based on the offset. So NY would be -5. We could for humans write time with the ecoding, similar to ISO-8601, but it would just be 15:30-5 for 3:30pm EST. While we're at it. Can we make all the mon…

I believe this "new calendar" idea has already been tried several times. Religion and agriculture always seem to be the sticking points.

Months are hardly necessary, anyway. Wouldn't quarters be better?

Have 4 quarters of 13 * 7-day weeks each. Designate the vernal equinox as day 0 of the calendar, follow it with the 4 91-day quarters, and tack on leap days after the 4th quarter according to the Gregorian calendar rules.

So you end up with dates like the 41st of Spring, or the 82nd of Summer. New Year's Day would be the 0th (nilth) of Spring, and Leap Day the 92nd of Winter.

Re: Time to Dump Time Zones

#479

Post by jedberg » Mon, Nov 07, 2016, 4:40 PM UTC

reflexive wrote: post #261

jedberg wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet even with DST, kids in Alaska manage to get to school despite the sun coming up at 10am. This whole "for the kids@ argument is the worst one. Most workers today would prefer going to work in the dark and having daylight after work. Even farmers will tell you DST doesn't make a diffence to them anymore (or ever). The animals get up with the sun regardless of what the clock says. I agree with OP -- in today's m…

> Most workers today would prefer going to work in the dark and having daylight after work. Daylight in the morning suppresses the action of the pineal gland. This helps you wake up. Getting up in the dark may sound like fun but it's fighting against your own body. http://www.more.com/lifestyle/exercise-health/finally-humans...

Artificial lighting has long solved that problem.

Re: Time to Dump Time Zones

#480

Post by grzm » Mon, Nov 07, 2016, 4:42 PM UTC

scottmf wrote: post #380

grzm wrote: post #361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sounds interesting, but I'm skeptical. 12, 60, and 360 have nice mathematical properties independent of human morphology. Do you have references to cite this?

The articles I've read all seem to cite print books. The Wiki articles on finger counting, and duodecimal list some: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duodecimal

Thanks for the reference! Not convinced that this is the sole reason, but it is interesting nonetheless.