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Tesco Bank halts online payments after money was taken from 20K accounts

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81–90 of 174 posts

Re: Tesco Bank halts online payments after money was taken from 20K accounts

#81
post #2

I wonder what the security flaw was? It is interesting that all the customers are still allowed to use their cards for cash withdrawals and payments, and they can all still log in to their online accounts. There doesn't seem to be any mention of a system-wide password reset. So... it sounds like there wasn't a widespread theft of account credentials, and that the attack was some kind of weakness in the bank's online…

Disclaimer: I don't use Tesco Bank so this is just speculation and some observations.

The types of 2FA vary dramatically between banks. Some use an SMS OTP but as we know phone numbers aren't secure [0]. Most use a card reader but they often do this differently. Some use the 'identify' function to log on and the 'sign' function for payments (as designed) but others use the 'respond' function for everything. The danger in using 'respond' for payments is that the account and amount aren't entered into the card reader so you don't know what you are authorising.

If Tesco have a flaw in how they are using 2FA, by only using 'respond', then local malware could intercept genuine payments, alter the account/amount details, and get the user to authorise this. Or Android malware could intercept SMS messages. N.B. This assumes the issue is in the faster payments system but it could be in the payment card system. It appears cash points still work but this is a separate system to debit card payments.

From what I've read no one will lose money but having transactions frozen is still a big inconvenience. As mentioned elsewhere here, this is why it's a good idea to have many different bank accounts from various parent institutions (also important from a deposit guarantee position). Some banks share the same infrastructure and liability. Always have some cash available too, although that is getting harder to spend everywhere [1].

[0]: https://unop.uk/phone-numbers-for-examples-and-user-identifi...

[1]: https://unop.uk/do-you-accept-cash/

Re: Tesco Bank halts online payments after money was taken from 20K accounts

#83
post #63
post #34

I just signed up for 2 Tesco accounts the other day to dump 3k in each for the 3% interest. I'm certainly not going to be doing anything with the accounts until Tesco give some more clarification on what actually happened (although the way these things work, I doubt there will ever be a full technical response.) Also if it is some sort of internal breach, would any other data have been taken? Back in 2012, Tesco were…

Tesco ask you to log on with "character 2 and 4 from your password" which sort of implies they must store the password in clear text (unless some kind of zeroknowledge/homomorphic encryption magic i've not heard of.)

Depending on the length of the password, it's possible to encode/hash (+salt) all possible outputs of challenge combinations at the point of storing your password.

It's a bit like having a number of related passwords, which the bank can ask you for any of them, and then verify is correct.

Re: Tesco Bank halts online payments after money was taken from 20K accounts

#84
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With Brexit uncertainty the current GBP inflation is over 20%. 3% is a drop in an ocean on that.

The UK doesn't import everything.

No, but quite a lot.

"Overseas Trade Statistics. In July 2016 the value of exports (EU and Non-EU) decreased to £23.9 billion, and imports (EU and Non-EU) decreased to £39.7 billion, compared with last month. Consequently the UK is a net importer this month, with imports exceeding exports by £15.9 billion."

https://www.uktradeinfo.com/Statistics/OverseasTradeStatisti...

Re: Tesco Bank halts online payments after money was taken from 20K accounts

#85
post #63
post #34

I just signed up for 2 Tesco accounts the other day to dump 3k in each for the 3% interest. I'm certainly not going to be doing anything with the accounts until Tesco give some more clarification on what actually happened (although the way these things work, I doubt there will ever be a full technical response.) Also if it is some sort of internal breach, would any other data have been taken? Back in 2012, Tesco were…

Tesco ask you to log on with "character 2 and 4 from your password" which sort of implies they must store the password in clear text (unless some kind of zeroknowledge/homomorphic encryption magic i've not heard of.)

That is not the password though. They call that the 'Security Number'.

After entering the two digits of the 'Security Number' you then receive a 'One Time Access Code' through a text or phone call, although I have never logged in to my account before, and seem to be unable to get past this step now.

I think you then enter your proper password in, which I would hope is not stored in plain text, although the article I linked seemed to imply this was the case back in 2012.

Re: Tesco Bank halts online payments after money was taken from 20K accounts

#86
post #22

And this right here is why you should have accounts with at least three separate banks, ideally in at least two different countries, and emergency funds in all of them. Also – get a couple of credit cards! Even if you never use the credit beyond what's necessary to keep it, it's good to have for when the proverbial shit hits the fan. Cash is also useful for solving the basic needs like getting food, but for paying bi…

OK while I am a big fan of multiple bank accounts (I have three, all for different purposes) this advice is total overkill and inappropriate for anyone who isn't financially stable, which unfortunately, is half of Americans. Two different countries? No thanks, I'm not screwing with that nightmare. I'd like to keep my money in the form of US dollars, I have no need for foreign currency and I don't want to waste money…

Perhaps the suggestion was made from an European standpoint? Two accounts in Euros within the SEPA area [1] means no costs for currency conversions or bank transfers between your accounts.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_Euro_Payments_Area

Re: Tesco Bank halts online payments after money was taken from 20K accounts

#87
post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He's probably subtracting inflation to make the interest rate of Tesco relative to the rest of the economy. Stuffing money in a mattress is a pretty poor idea when it should be very easy to find an investment scheme that covers inflation.

It's not like the rest of the economy is immune from inflation though. Do we adjust everything for inflation? It just strikes me as pointless complication. Really, the only point I can think of is comparing saving to outright immediate spending.

Certain statistics are usually inflation adjusted, like GDP. Real Gross Domestic Product measures economic output adjusted for inflation or deflation. If inflation is 20%, and you're earning 3% interest, your losing purchasing power. If inflation is 1% and you're earning 3%, you're gaining.

Real, not nominal, returns are what people care about.

Re: Tesco Bank halts online payments after money was taken from 20K accounts

#88
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In many instances the amount taken is significantly more than £500 too. One colleague has had £800 taken. He's quite stressed right now.

I'm wondering why the individual the amounts were so (relatively speaking) small? Perhaps some strategy to avoid tripping warning systems. Do you know if the the £800 was all there was in that particular account?

Most banks have a limit on transfers, but everything under £1000 should work without triggering any warning

Re: Tesco Bank halts online payments after money was taken from 20K accounts

#89
It looks like faster payments are still allowed, as are in person chip and pin and cash withdrawls.

My guess someone (either insider or via technical means) has got a list of all the debit card numbers, ccv and account details - maybe even 3DSecure/VfV details?

People are then doing loads of payments via online cardholder not present.

Going to be a pain to figure what is what on this.

"Ref: Customers will still be able to use their cards for cash withdrawals, chip and pin payments, and bill payments. The bank is blocking customers from making online payments using their debit card, although transfers between accounts and to other people are still allowed, a spokesperson said."

Re: Tesco Bank halts online payments after money was taken from 20K accounts

#90
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn't that be covered under deposit insurance?

Right, but until that insurance pays out you're maybe faced with a bill you cannot pay in the meantime.

I'm sure the creditors would be lenient if you can prove this incident complicated things for you.
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