Earlier quoted context omitted.
Your cryptocoins can be tainted by a government though. That is, the addresses can be published by whatever entity with a threat to taint addresses they send value too unless the target addresses turn the value over to the government entity.
If the threat environment involves a Government vs. You, anything that is not physical currency is dead. They can freeze your bank accounts too.
Tesco Bank halts online payments after money was taken from 20K accounts
61–70 of 174 posts
Re: Tesco Bank halts online payments after money was taken from 20K accounts
#62Earlier quoted context omitted.
I interpreted "online payments" to mean payments to accounts via online banking, rather than credit/debit card payments online. If it was a card details leak, I'd have expected cards to be cancelled, and not allowing them to continue to be used.
There are stories of people losing 2000 pounds leaving them with only 20 pounds left in the account. Hard to believe such people could get credit cards with a 2k limit. Also if the fraudulent payments were card payments why not just reverse them in the normal way. It sounds more like bank wires.
Unfortunately that's totally plausible, and infact, are the profitable customers for credit card companies. Why give a credit card to someone who can pay off their bills in full every month, when you can give someone more credit than they earn, let them spend it all, and then pay you monthly with interest?
As a point of reference, my Amex limit is 5x my monthly post-tax earnings. Back when I was only eligible for entry cards, at £250 limit increased to >£5k within a year.
Re: Tesco Bank halts online payments after money was taken from 20K accounts
#63I just signed up for 2 Tesco accounts the other day to dump 3k in each for the 3% interest. I'm certainly not going to be doing anything with the accounts until Tesco give some more clarification on what actually happened (although the way these things work, I doubt there will ever be a full technical response.) Also if it is some sort of internal breach, would any other data have been taken? Back in 2012, Tesco were…
Re: Tesco Bank halts online payments after money was taken from 20K accounts
#64it seems to be money transferred from accounts (£600 mentioned as an amount). But to set up 20,000 new transfers, and extract money from them, without 2FA, and without tripping any number of alarms is a terrible failure in security. This will massively affect their provider fiserv, their internal team will almost certainly have to be replaced and I would be surprised if they don't throw their hands up and go back to…
I don't think that's going to happen just yet. UK bank regulation is famously light touch and the government is extremely preoccupied at the moment.
(The loss applies to the bank, not the customers, so they've got plenty of incentive to fix this. And it's quite possible it's a backend hack from the sound of some of the other comments on this thread, for which 2FA is no use)
Re: Tesco Bank halts online payments after money was taken from 20K accounts
#65Earlier quoted context omitted.
I interpreted "online payments" to mean payments to accounts via online banking, rather than credit/debit card payments online. If it was a card details leak, I'd have expected cards to be cancelled, and not allowing them to continue to be used.
There are stories of people losing 2000 pounds leaving them with only 20 pounds left in the account. Hard to believe such people could get credit cards with a 2k limit. Also if the fraudulent payments were card payments why not just reverse them in the normal way. It sounds more like bank wires.
Re: Tesco Bank halts online payments after money was taken from 20K accounts
#66I wonder what the security flaw was? It is interesting that all the customers are still allowed to use their cards for cash withdrawals and payments, and they can all still log in to their online accounts. There doesn't seem to be any mention of a system-wide password reset. So... it sounds like there wasn't a widespread theft of account credentials, and that the attack was some kind of weakness in the bank's online…
there was a victim on the radio this morning saying his account had been breached. But he said the account is one he just uses for savings. He received the card in the post years ago and it has sat in his safe ever since. It's never left his house. So couldn't understand how someone could have ever got his details
Re: Tesco Bank halts online payments after money was taken from 20K accounts
#67it seems to be money transferred from accounts (£600 mentioned as an amount). But to set up 20,000 new transfers, and extract money from them, without 2FA, and without tripping any number of alarms is a terrible failure in security. This will massively affect their provider fiserv, their internal team will almost certainly have to be replaced and I would be surprised if they don't throw their hands up and go back to…
Tesco's strategic response will be more about reputation, branding and customer relationships than about the direct profits they earn from their financial services.
I would be surprised if Her Majesty's Government started micromanaging security (unless there was political pressure to do so). That's not their style. Much better to require that banks, and their customers, are adequately insured against this kind of fraud, and then let the invisible hand decide the optimum level of security.
How would one launder so much stolen bank account credit so quickly? It depends on whether you need to remain anonymous or not. If, say, you're an established Russian gangster with an established network of ATM withdrawal agents, it's relatively straightforward. Sure, some of the agents will get caught, but that's their problem, not yours.
On the other hand, if you're within reach of British justice, I guess we're talking about Bitcoins. Can the scammers move their stolen cash to a Bitcoin market that's large enough and liquid enough to swallow that much transaction volume before the cash is frozen? I've no idea.
If I was a legislator, I would look for ways to attack bitcoin laundering / tumbling. Bitcoin transactions are anonymous, but they are also public. It's always possible to look at the Bitcoins in your wallet and see if they are in any way tainted by association with known dirty money.
Re: Tesco Bank halts online payments after money was taken from 20K accounts
#68> Tesco Bank is stressing that relatively small amounts were taken from 20,000 accounts If someone is living month to month, said £500 missing could be very serious complication of life and £25 "emergency fund" is a joke. I personally doubt a wealthy person would use that bank and yet they seem to think their customers are pissing gold.
In many instances the amount taken is significantly more than £500 too. One colleague has had £800 taken. He's quite stressed right now.
Re: Tesco Bank halts online payments after money was taken from 20K accounts
#69The worst thing that can happen for any bank is to have its customers' money taken away. No one will ever do business with that bank again. You can screw up everything else but lose people's money is unforgivable.
Re: Tesco Bank halts online payments after money was taken from 20K accounts
#70it seems to be money transferred from accounts (£600 mentioned as an amount). But to set up 20,000 new transfers, and extract money from them, without 2FA, and without tripping any number of alarms is a terrible failure in security. This will massively affect their provider fiserv, their internal team will almost certainly have to be replaced and I would be surprised if they don't throw their hands up and go back to…
The financial hit needn't be disastrous. One would have thought Tesco had insurance! Tesco's strategic response will be more about reputation, branding and customer relationships than about the direct profits they earn from their financial services. I would be surprised if Her Majesty's Government started micromanaging security (unless there was political pressure to do so). That's not their style. Much better to req…