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Freud’s Discontents

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Re: Freud’s Discontents

#11

Post by TheOtherHobbes »

pococo wrote: post #5

Excuse my ignorance, but why does everyone seem to hate on Freud, considering he has had a tremendous influence on modern psychology? Honest question.

Because most of his theories are nonsense. He got the idea of the unconscious right and understood transference eventually, but the rest of his theories are mostly bunk.

Worse, some are harmful bunk. He denied the existence of child sex abuse and invented a set of complex rationalisations which blamed the victims and shamed them for inventing fantasies.

We know now that at least some of their stories were correct, and not fantasies and delusions at all.

Pure Freudian psychoanalysis is incredibly expensive and time consuming and never scores well when tested objectively. It's not an exaggeration to say that in terms of value for time and money it's more of a scam than astrology and homeopathy are, but it never seems to get the same attention from debunkers.

Modern approaches that score much better (e.g. ACT and other MBTs) have almost no baggage imported from Freudian beliefs.

Re: Freud’s Discontents

#12

Post by toasterlovin »

rgejman wrote: post #3

Outstanding essay on why Freud has faded from his ultimate cultural and scientific pedestal -- and why and other grand theorists are not relevant today. I agree with the author that "The grand theories of an earlier age offered us an ability to look at the intersections between the self, society, and history; in comparison, their replacements look not just intellectually meek but politically unpromising." On the othe…

On the contrary, the theories of Freud, Jung, etc. may strive to place the study of human psychology into a larger context, but it is evolutionary psychology that actually accomplishes this task.

Right now, the field of psychology is replacing phrenology and faith healing with biochemistry. And, you know what, good riddance!

Re: Freud’s Discontents

#13

Post by pavel_lishin »

inimino wrote: post #10
tehwalrus wrote: post #7

I've heard that Freud's methods were poor and his brain science was junk; but I can't actually name any particular bad theory or experiment. This article did not enlighten me, at least in the first ten minutes reading it. Anyone know of a good guide? And, since it's Freud, one that won't turn my stomach?

There's a lot of nonsense thrown around about Freud. If you're interested, there's nothing better to just read the man himself. You can form your own opinions and you'll get a lot more out of it than reading someone's inevitably biased commentary.

Given that most of us here probably don't have any sort of medical training, are our own opinions likely to be worth anything?

Re: Freud’s Discontents

#14

Post by edblarney »

Pigo wrote: post #4

> Instead of believing that pathologies could be described or drugged away, Freudians wanted us to work through them. If this is true, then it's definitely a practice that needs to be focused on again. I've had nothing but bad experiences with various medical professionals throwing drugs at me the moment I mentioned personal difficulties. The anti-depressants kept me in a bad place for a long time, when I think I mos…

"I definitely don't remember anyone trying to work on anything with me."

This is too bad.

We really have to much faith in 'pills' when they are obviously just a temporary fix for something underlying.

I had a physical ailment that was hard to diagnose, the doctors could be bothered.

Finally I 'fixed myself' simply by sleeping normal hours, quitting the red-bull, and quit my job and took some time away from stress. That did it.

Scary: not a single doctor asked me about my habits! If they did, they would have found I was sleeping 5 hours a night, drinking 3 redbulls a day, and max-stressed. The answer was obvious to any fool! But several doctors missed it!

Good luck with your issue.

Re: Freud’s Discontents

#15

Post by edblarney »

pococo wrote: post #5

Excuse my ignorance, but why does everyone seem to hate on Freud, considering he has had a tremendous influence on modern psychology? Honest question.

"but why does everyone seem to hate on Freud, considering he has had a tremendous influence on modern psychology?"

Because his theories were not necessarily scientific, and it was unjust perhaps that he had such influence.

Re: Freud’s Discontents

#16

Post by openasocket »

pococo wrote: post #5

Excuse my ignorance, but why does everyone seem to hate on Freud, considering he has had a tremendous influence on modern psychology? Honest question.

I think it's a lot because many of his ideas that were revolutionary for the time are considered obvious in hindsight. Mental illness at the time was often considered to be the result of some moral failing, and those with it are degenerates and beyond help. Freud and other founding members of psychology presented a radical idea that mental illness is a disease, its sufferers should be treated with kindness and compassion, and it can be treated by talking.

Re: Freud’s Discontents

#17

Post by Pigo »

phkahler wrote: post #9
Pigo wrote: post #4

> Instead of believing that pathologies could be described or drugged away, Freudians wanted us to work through them. If this is true, then it's definitely a practice that needs to be focused on again. I've had nothing but bad experiences with various medical professionals throwing drugs at me the moment I mentioned personal difficulties. The anti-depressants kept me in a bad place for a long time, when I think I mos…

>> If this is true, then it's definitely a practice that needs to be focused on again. I've had nothing but bad experiences with various medical professionals throwing drugs at me the moment I mentioned personal difficulties. I've found it to be true. Understanding where my undesirable behaviors come from is helping me correct them tremendously. It can be a painful process - expect to get worse before you get better…

I eventually found help through attending a church that focuses on community outreach and small groups, which helped me get outside my own head long enough to make some positive steps. But I've always wanted to find a therapist who is genuinely interested and can provide more insight than I can learn on my own from books like The Road Less Traveled. I don't know what other people go through, and I wish I understood Jung well enough to share with other people, but I suspect professionals are just throwing drugs because they're overwhelmed by the constant wave of misery and depression they're confronted with.

Re: Freud’s Discontents

#18

Post by tboyd47 »

tehwalrus wrote: post #7

I've heard that Freud's methods were poor and his brain science was junk; but I can't actually name any particular bad theory or experiment. This article did not enlighten me, at least in the first ten minutes reading it. Anyone know of a good guide? And, since it's Freud, one that won't turn my stomach?

It wasn't his methods. His idea of curing by talking is now standard practice, but was revolutionary for that time. The problem was that it put him on the path to exposing the widespread incest and rape that was going on in his society. Freud initially believed his patients, but wasn't prepared to face the consequences, so he changed his tune, and this reversal led him to come up with the far-out psychosexual theories he's so famous for.

Freud is still regarded as the father of modern psychology, perhaps because he was the first to actually sit down with his patients and take them seriously.

Here's an article that tells the story in detail: http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1984/02/freud-an...

Re: Freud’s Discontents

#19

Post by inimino »

pavel_lishin wrote: post #13
inimino wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a lot of nonsense thrown around about Freud. If you're interested, there's nothing better to just read the man himself. You can form your own opinions and you'll get a lot more out of it than reading someone's inevitably biased commentary.

Given that most of us here probably don't have any sort of medical training, are our own opinions likely to be worth anything?

Medical training is not necessary to understand Freud.

If you think your opinion is worthless, how would you choose which "expert" to trust?

Re: Freud’s Discontents

#20

Post by phkahler »

Pigo wrote: post #17
phkahler wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> If this is true, then it's definitely a practice that needs to be focused on again. I've had nothing but bad experiences with various medical professionals throwing drugs at me the moment I mentioned personal difficulties. I've found it to be true. Understanding where my undesirable behaviors come from is helping me correct them tremendously. It can be a painful process - expect to get worse before you get better…

I eventually found help through attending a church that focuses on community outreach and small groups, which helped me get outside my own head long enough to make some positive steps. But I've always wanted to find a therapist who is genuinely interested and can provide more insight than I can learn on my own from books like The Road Less Traveled. I don't know what other people go through, and I wish I understood J…

>> But I've always wanted to find a therapist who is genuinely interested and can provide more insight than I can learn on my own from books like The Road Less Traveled.

Insight is tricky, as is introspection. Other people can offer suggestions and even insight as to what is going on in your head, but they have their own preconceived ideas and patterns they try to fit on you. Ultimately introspection must win, as you are the only one who can actually see what's happening in there. Variations on those suggestions may feel like a better fit - go with what feels most correct, but don't assume you've found "the" answer - I've had several step changes in the accuracy of my understanding of me.

Talk to people who know you, or are related to you, or have their own issues, whatever. You never know what will tip your thoughts into a better understanding of yourself.

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