Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Dyson opens Britain’s first degree where students get paid

thememo.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

71–80 of 80 posts

Re: Dyson opens Britain’s first degree where students get paid

#71

Post by rahimnathwani »

pvaldes wrote: post #69
rahimnathwani wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A CS degree isn't 'comfortably standardised'. Each university has its own curriculum, its own exams, and its own standards. If I could prove to you that I was awarded a CS degree from a UK university, would that be sufficient for you to agree to employ me?

If your scores were high, probably yes. Recruitment should be put in the right context. The best recruiter have an evening, or a few hours to figure out if you are a good fit or if you have any skills. If you have a bad day, your recruiter don't liked your face or he/she wants to remain the big fish in a small pond; you fall under the radar. Your teachers instead had four years for "recruit you". They have see you pe…

ropiku: Simply because you have a CS degree doesn't mean you're qualified enough to be hired.

pvaldes: here you are the results of my 100 exams, that I passed sucessfully. In an officially certified document, easy to authenticate.

me: If I could prove to you that I was awarded a CS degree from a UK university, would that be sufficient for you to agree to employ me?

pvaldes: If your scores were high, probably yes.

So it seems that you and ropiku _agree_ that a CS degree _isn't_ enough.

Where you differ is that you want to see scores above some threshold (although I can't imagine how you'd standardise those across 100+ UK universities), and ropiku wants to see someone write some Java code. Both seem reasonable approaches, but the latter seems a little easier and more reliable.

Re: Dyson opens Britain’s first degree where students get paid

#72

Post by jackweirdy »

rahimnathwani wrote: post #66
jackweirdy wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We also have lots of skilled people missing work. All three problems are related, none are the root cause

Skilled at what?

Software development, for one. In the UK Computer Science is the STEM subject with the highest unemployment rate.

Re: Dyson opens Britain’s first degree where students get paid

#73

Post by pvaldes »

rahimnathwani wrote: post #71
pvaldes wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If your scores were high, probably yes. Recruitment should be put in the right context. The best recruiter have an evening, or a few hours to figure out if you are a good fit or if you have any skills. If you have a bad day, your recruiter don't liked your face or he/she wants to remain the big fish in a small pond; you fall under the radar. Your teachers instead had four years for "recruit you". They have see you pe…

ropiku: Simply because you have a CS degree doesn't mean you're qualified enough to be hired. pvaldes: here you are the results of my 100 exams, that I passed sucessfully. In an officially certified document, easy to authenticate. me: If I could prove to you that I was awarded a CS degree from a UK university, would that be sufficient for you to agree to employ me? pvaldes: If your scores were high, probably yes. So…

> I can't imagine how you'd standardise those across 100+ UK universities

Is Python a different language if written in Cardiff, Liverpool or Plymouth?

Re: Dyson opens Britain’s first degree where students get paid

#74

Post by aries1980 »

SmellyGeekBoy wrote: post #30
orcdork wrote: post #9

Dyson, the billionaire who backed Brexit, is worried that there aren't enough engineers in the UK. Hah.

He also famously moved his manufacturing operations to Malaysia in 2003, resulting in the loss of 800 UK engineering jobs: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/2860995/Dyson-production-...

800 manufacturing jobs, not 800 engineering jobs.

Re: Dyson opens Britain’s first degree where students get paid

#75

Post by rahimnathwani »

pvaldes wrote: post #73
rahimnathwani wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ropiku: Simply because you have a CS degree doesn't mean you're qualified enough to be hired. pvaldes: here you are the results of my 100 exams, that I passed sucessfully. In an officially certified document, easy to authenticate. me: If I could prove to you that I was awarded a CS degree from a UK university, would that be sufficient for you to agree to employ me? pvaldes: If your scores were high, probably yes. So…

> I can't imagine how you'd standardise those across 100+ UK universities Is Python a different language if written in Cardiff, Liverpool or Plymouth?

> Is Python a different language if written in Cardiff, Liverpool or Plymouth?

No, but that has zero relevance to the comparability of scores between universities.

Re: Dyson opens Britain’s first degree where students get paid

#76

Post by rahimnathwani »

jackweirdy wrote: post #72
rahimnathwani wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Skilled at what?

Software development, for one. In the UK Computer Science is the STEM subject with the highest unemployment rate.

Are you saying that there are people in the UK who are skilled in software development, who cannot find jobs developing software? Or that there are people who have studied computer science (e.g. at university) and cannot find jobs developing software?

Re: Dyson opens Britain’s first degree where students get paid

#77

Post by pvaldes »

rahimnathwani wrote: post #75
pvaldes wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I can't imagine how you'd standardise those across 100+ UK universities Is Python a different language if written in Cardiff, Liverpool or Plymouth?

> Is Python a different language if written in Cardiff, Liverpool or Plymouth? No, but that has zero relevance to the comparability of scores between universities.

Has Python zero relevance to have a job?

For some jobs yes, of course; for other I don't think so.

If you have a soft spot for elitism and want to have universities ranked by categories you can have it. Is universally standardized, as I said before. You could hire people only of universities ranking in prime number positions if you want. Is your choice.

If you want simply to hire somebody able to code in the language X, you could just take a quick look at the curriculum of your candidate and see if that language was teached in his/her university, what contents have been teached (can find it in the web of the university) and how the guy/girl scored, so... what is the problem exactly?

Do you think that to make them repeat the same tests is a good way to spend the money of your company and your time as employer? Is your company a wannabe-university? Do you feel better qualified to score correctly a candidate than the teacher that spent 30 years doing exactly that job?

Re: Dyson opens Britain’s first degree where students get paid

#78

Post by rahimnathwani »

pvaldes wrote: post #77
rahimnathwani wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is Python a different language if written in Cardiff, Liverpool or Plymouth? No, but that has zero relevance to the comparability of scores between universities.

Has Python zero relevance to have a job? For some jobs yes, of course; for other I don't think so. If you have a soft spot for elitism and want to have universities ranked by categories you can have it. Is universally standardized, as I said before. You could hire people only of universities ranking in prime number positions if you want. Is your choice. If you want simply to hire somebody able to code in the language…

You're arguing against points that I didn't make. I had only two points to make in this sub-thread:

- CS degrees are not standardised, i.e. you cannot directly conclude anything based on the graduate's degree grade or individual scores, without additional information (e.g. the institution where they studied).

- Just because someone has a CS degree, that's not enough for you to decide to hire them. You need additional information.

Do you disagree with either of those points?

Re: Dyson opens Britain’s first degree where students get paid

#79

Post by pvaldes »

rahimnathwani wrote: post #78
pvaldes wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Has Python zero relevance to have a job? For some jobs yes, of course; for other I don't think so. If you have a soft spot for elitism and want to have universities ranked by categories you can have it. Is universally standardized, as I said before. You could hire people only of universities ranking in prime number positions if you want. Is your choice. If you want simply to hire somebody able to code in the language…

You're arguing against points that I didn't make. I had only two points to make in this sub-thread: - CS degrees are not standardised, i.e. you cannot directly conclude anything based on the graduate's degree grade or individual scores, without additional information (e.g. the institution where they studied). - Just because someone has a CS degree, that's not enough for you to decide to hire them. You need additional…

> CS degrees are not standardised

In most countries they are, by law. Is the basis of the educative system. Degrees are certified and strongly regulated by the government. I can't just print and flash one without a license to emit degrees. This would be to falsificate a public document, wich is a crime in most countries in the world, if not all.

In those countries you can't discriminate something for a public job based only in their university, this would be also illegal. Any degree of type "X" emited by a valid institution must de accepted if you ask for an degree of type "X". All are equivalent. In many fields, physicians for example, you can't work without a degree. But you can work as physician in UK with a Spanish or Chinese degree for example, because this is regulated. Private companies of course can lie themselves in any way as they want. Is their money after all.

Your reality may be different.

> You cannot directly conclude anything based on the graduate's degree grade

If your candidate show a CS degree, you can directly conclude that this people have skills related with computer science, and related with having a CS degree. You don't know if he/she is able to drive a truck, this is true.

> or individual scores

Also standardized.

> Without eg. the institution where they studied.

Information casually written in big fat letters in the CS degree.

Re: Dyson opens Britain’s first degree where students get paid

#80

Post by rahimnathwani »

pvaldes wrote: post #79
rahimnathwani wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're arguing against points that I didn't make. I had only two points to make in this sub-thread: - CS degrees are not standardised, i.e. you cannot directly conclude anything based on the graduate's degree grade or individual scores, without additional information (e.g. the institution where they studied). - Just because someone has a CS degree, that's not enough for you to decide to hire them. You need additional…

> CS degrees are not standardised In most countries they are, by law. Is the basis of the educative system. Degrees are certified and strongly regulated by the government. I can't just print and flash one without a license to emit degrees. This would be to falsificate a public document, wich is a crime in most countries in the world, if not all. In those countries you can't discriminate something for a public job bas…

In the UK, degrees and individual scores are definitely not standardized.

The standard to achieve a given degree grade (e.g. Upper Second) varies between institutions.

As for individual scores, these are often not even on the same scale. Some universities use numerical scores; others use alpha/beta/gamma.

If you accept the above, but still believe that UK CS degrees are standardized, then it's likely you and I assign different meanings to the word 'standardized'.

Post reply on HN