Be careful about what you dislike • Hacker News Board

Re: Be careful about what you dislike

#161

Post by brazzledazzle » Sun, Nov 06, 2016, 1:58 AM UTC

jacobolus wrote: post #77

chucksmash wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Espousing nuanced opinions and making effective arguments are often at odds though. It's very easy for people to lose the thread of an argument if it is chock full of footnotes. I try to aim for "strong opinions, weakly held" - present a specific, actionable and strong position but be open to changing it if a better argument is made.

More to the point, nuanced opinions are at odds with clickbait/flamebait. If you want to get lots of attention and start a big internet fight, say the most outrageous aggressive thing you can, and argue sloppily, with just enough reasoning behind you to get the folks who agree with you to come fight for your side.

I'll take it one step further and say that nuanced opinions are at odds with modern society's increasingly short attention spans.

Re: Be careful about what you dislike

#162

Post by dredmorbius » Sun, Nov 06, 2016, 2:12 AM UTC

pimlottc wrote: post #58

This brings to mind a fantastically lucid comic about the utility of questions vs answers: http://kiriakakis.net/comics/mused/a-day-at-the-park After all, the an opinion is just an answer to the question, "What do I think of this?"

Please submit this to HN. That's fabulous.

(It's also much better than a few similar conversations I've been having myself.)

Re: Be careful about what you dislike

#163

Post by alphapapa » Sun, Nov 06, 2016, 3:00 AM UTC

jessaustin wrote: post #150

hellofunk wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What an apropos quote! Never seen that one before, good to know it now.

My reading of the poem is somewhat at odds with the implication of that quote by itself. Overall Yeats seems to be lamenting a particular situation in which the best and worst have these qualities, rather than simply stating that they have these qualities in general.

Yes, along the lines of the quote, "All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing."

Re: Be careful about what you dislike

#164

Post by sitkack » Sun, Nov 06, 2016, 3:41 AM UTC

I have to reference an Arthur C Clarke essay, "Hazards of Prophecy" with this quote

  > When a distinguished but elderly scientist states that
  > something is possible, he is almost certainly right. When
  > he states that something is impossible, he is probably wrong.

I have found that the wisest, smartest, most mature folks will re-evaluate their opinions in light of new information, and often change their mind.

Re: Be careful about what you dislike

#165

Post by crawfordcomeaux » Sun, Nov 06, 2016, 7:32 AM UTC

xg15 wrote: post #49

crawfordcomeaux wrote: post #22

Our realities are each a collection of stories we each tell ourselves. Sometimes parts of the stories two people believe will overlap and we'll call those opinions or facts depending on situation. I'm finding it helpful to view every signal my body encounters as a chance to choose how to process it, including what I do, taste, or hear. Since adopting this view, I've effortlessly enjoyed eating foods I've hated my ent…

> Sometimes parts of the stories two people believe will overlap and we'll call those opinions or facts depending on situation. I'd argue that happens slightly more often than "sometimes" - this is the basis which communication, and with it relationships and communities need to function. > If anyone sees danger in learning to view the world that way by default, I'd love to hear about it. The main danger I see is not…

True...now that I think about it, I can always choose to find some sort of relationship between what I believe & what you believe, even if metaphorical. That's fun :)

> The main danger I see is not trusting your body. Your virw seems to treat all reactions to signals as equal

I'd argue what I'm doing is learning to dampen the bias my mind introduces when it processes signals from my tongue/nose/ears. It's trusting the signals my body generates more than what my mind has to say about them. Rancid food is still going to taste/smell/feel/look spoiled & if I do somehow enjoy it, my body's still likely to react negatively in other ways to let me know it was a bad decision.

Re: Be careful about what you dislike

#166

Post by crawfordcomeaux » Sun, Nov 06, 2016, 7:36 AM UTC

immobilenopass wrote: post #45

crawfordcomeaux wrote: post #22

Our realities are each a collection of stories we each tell ourselves. Sometimes parts of the stories two people believe will overlap and we'll call those opinions or facts depending on situation. I'm finding it helpful to view every signal my body encounters as a chance to choose how to process it, including what I do, taste, or hear. Since adopting this view, I've effortlessly enjoyed eating foods I've hated my ent…

This sounds like an excellent blog post, or even a book.

I'm definitely going to blog about it, now that you've said that. Thanks for the inspiration :)

I think I'll title it "Olive happier when olive olive the foods." (I live happier when I love all of the foods)

Re: Be careful about what you dislike

#167

Post by Too » Sun, Nov 06, 2016, 8:47 AM UTC

thwarted wrote: post #128

ball_of_lint wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you don't understand something well, then any opinion you might claim to have on it is not actually on it, but rather on what you currently understand it to be. In that case, why not just say that you simply don't know enough to have an informed opinion?

In that case, why not just say that you simply don't know enough to have an informed opinion? Up against a dishonest debater, this is exploitable to lessen your influence, even if your position is relatively stronger, against (unsubstantiated) claims of being an expert. "ball_of_lint claims to be uninformed and doesn't have an opinion. That's okay, listen to me, I'm an expert"

So you'd rather win one debate at the cost of loosing reputation for years?

If someone strongly claims they know something and I later find out that they were wrong, I simply can't trust that person ever again.

Re: Be careful about what you dislike

#168

Post by [deleted] » Sun, Nov 06, 2016, 11:27 AM UTC

amag wrote: post #133

hellofunk wrote: post #51

I have realized over the years that it is wise to be naturally skeptical of any opinion that is strong, either positive or negative. People who have an appreciation for gray areas, even if they ultimately do have a preference, tend to be a lot more emotionally balanced than those who maintain a very strong stance on something. I have noticed this so consistently over the last 15 years that I now consider it a fundame…

It seems you have a very strong opinion about who you can work and socialize with... ;P

[deleted]

Re: Be careful about what you dislike

#169

Post by hellofunk » Sun, Nov 06, 2016, 11:27 AM UTC

amag wrote: post #133

hellofunk wrote: post #51

I have realized over the years that it is wise to be naturally skeptical of any opinion that is strong, either positive or negative. People who have an appreciation for gray areas, even if they ultimately do have a preference, tend to be a lot more emotionally balanced than those who maintain a very strong stance on something. I have noticed this so consistently over the last 15 years that I now consider it a fundame…

It seems you have a very strong opinion about who you can work and socialize with... ;P

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12880623

Re: Be careful about what you dislike

#170

Post by dahart » Sun, Nov 06, 2016, 2:46 PM UTC

hiou wrote: post #153

BeetleB wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I find that people who sit in the greys tend to be very worried about their public perception or have very little passion beyond maintaining personal comfort. Or, you know, the issue is grey. Why take a strong stand when you have plenty of reasons not to? The funny thing is that I find the opposite . I call it the "cowardice of taking a stand". Being a fence-sitter in this culture is fairly negatively perceived (exc…

I imagine the firefighter that prevents fires has strong opinions about how they start.

I am honestly curious... Do you feel like putting out fires is a matter of opinion? Do you think firefighters are leaders and not worker bees? How does this rhetorical statement speculating vaguely about firefighters support your argument that leaders should have strong opinions about an issue even when they don't fully understand the issue?

FWIW, since you used the word "prevent", firefighters only put out fires that are already burning. The people leading in fire prevention aren't firefighters. Other people think about how to prevent fires. One example is the Forest Service in the US. The Forest Service is having nuanced debates about how to prevent forest fires, and one side of the argument is that many forest fires are natural. Fires have historically always happened, and they are part of our ecosystem. So, some of the thinking goes, we should let them burn. We are actually doing some ecological damage by putting out fires that start natually. We are also doing financial damage spending tax money on a "problem" that will never go away, and isn't a problem if we stop trying to live in the forest.

Other people who have properties & cabins in the woods would prefer that their choice to build a cabin in the woods was protected by firefighters no matter how the fire starts.

What is your opinion about whether naturally occurring forest fires should be fought?