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Be careful about what you dislike

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Re: Be careful about what you dislike

#151

Post by aswanson »

hiou wrote: post #64
hellofunk wrote: post #51

I have realized over the years that it is wise to be naturally skeptical of any opinion that is strong, either positive or negative. People who have an appreciation for gray areas, even if they ultimately do have a preference, tend to be a lot more emotionally balanced than those who maintain a very strong stance on something. I have noticed this so consistently over the last 15 years that I now consider it a fundame…

I find that people who sit in the greys tend to be very worried about their public perception or have very little passion beyond maintaining personal comfort. The people I look for are those that take strong stands but are willing and able to adjust and even quickly reverse those stances. To me it's the difference between a leader and a worker bee.

That sounds to me like a loudmouth versus someone who thinks about what he's saying before saying it.

Re: Be careful about what you dislike

#152

Post by greenhatman »

adrusi wrote: post #139
ythl wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Your belief should be based on the evidence you have, even if that means a small amount that leads you to an extreme conclusion. That's one way of thinking, but I reject it. You'll easily be manipulated by political and corporate agendas if you think this way. Often my own intuition is at odds with the "evidence I have" and I turn out to be right later. If I had jumped to the (extreme) conclusion that smoking was h…

You won't be easily manipulated by virtue of having strong opinions, as long as they're weakly held, because you'll probably state your strong opinion to someone who knows better than you. If your opinion is actually weakly held, you'll recognize that their opinion is closer to the truth and adjust yours accordingly. Often my own intuition is at odds with the "evidence I have" and I turn out to be right later. I mean…

What does 'a strong opinion' mean to you? Because I think we have different ideas of what that means.

I think the people who are against forming strong opinions on little data, thinks it essentially means being confident, speaking your mind, and influencing others towards seeing things your way, when you haven't done much research into a topic. Which I think is a bad idea, because it has a high chance of propagating misinformation.

Re: Be careful about what you dislike

#153

Post by hiou »

BeetleB wrote: post #149
hiou wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find that people who sit in the greys tend to be very worried about their public perception or have very little passion beyond maintaining personal comfort. The people I look for are those that take strong stands but are willing and able to adjust and even quickly reverse those stances. To me it's the difference between a leader and a worker bee.

>I find that people who sit in the greys tend to be very worried about their public perception or have very little passion beyond maintaining personal comfort. Or, you know, the issue is grey. Why take a strong stand when you have plenty of reasons not to? The funny thing is that I find the opposite . I call it the "cowardice of taking a stand". Being a fence-sitter in this culture is fairly negatively perceived (exc…

I imagine the firefighter that prevents fires has strong opinions about how they start.

Re: Be careful about what you dislike

#154

Post by greenhatman »

PerfectElement wrote: post #132
hellofunk wrote: post #51

I have realized over the years that it is wise to be naturally skeptical of any opinion that is strong, either positive or negative. People who have an appreciation for gray areas, even if they ultimately do have a preference, tend to be a lot more emotionally balanced than those who maintain a very strong stance on something. I have noticed this so consistently over the last 15 years that I now consider it a fundame…

That's only true for opinions that are not generally accepted. I believe you have strong opinions about all sorts of things, e.g. you probably have a strong stance against slavery. Take this strong stance 300 years back, and you would be seen as an emotionally unbalanced person, by your standard. I'm glad there are people with strong opinions. The world would be a much darker place if everyone was always on the fence…

Yea, Hitler had strong opinions too. This can go either way, I guess.

I think having strong opinions based on a deep understanding is better. And generally a deep understanding means you'll discover both pros and cons to most situations.

This means you can make balanced and calculated efforts, instead of blindly starting a crusade and hope you turn out to actually be right.

Re: Be careful about what you dislike

#155

Post by greenhatman »

robertelder wrote: post #97
hellofunk wrote: post #51

I have realized over the years that it is wise to be naturally skeptical of any opinion that is strong, either positive or negative. People who have an appreciation for gray areas, even if they ultimately do have a preference, tend to be a lot more emotionally balanced than those who maintain a very strong stance on something. I have noticed this so consistently over the last 15 years that I now consider it a fundame…

> I now consider it a fundamental benchmark... Sorry to be pedantic, but I just wanted to point out the paradox you get by holding such an opinion so strongly.

I only hold one opinion strongly, and that is that people with strong opinions are full of shit :)

Re: Be careful about what you dislike

#156

Post by yarou »

imagist wrote: post #115
chucksmash wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Espousing nuanced opinions and making effective arguments are often at odds though. It's very easy for people to lose the thread of an argument if it is chock full of footnotes. I try to aim for "strong opinions, weakly held" - present a specific, actionable and strong position but be open to changing it if a better argument is made.

There's a parable of a guy who lost his keys in the park at night. Upon realizing he lost his keys, he begins to look for the keys in the street near a street lamp. When his friend asks why he's looking for his keys in the street instead of in the park where he lost them, the guy responds that the light is better in the street. It's true that espousing nuanced opinions and making effective arguments are often at odds…

It's hard to make any true statement when terms are defined by what they aren't, rather than by what they are.

For example, the term "SJW". What is an SJW? I can tell you what it isn't. It is not racist, not misogynistic, etc. But what is it actually defined as?

I've never been a fan of post-structuralism, or any postmodern philosophical theory, but as of late I've been drawn to Jean Baudrillard. At the very least, our political landscape itself has become a simulacra of true political thought, as evidenced by groups defining themselves by the nihil or negation, i.e. there is no Universe where the statement "I am a bigot" can be made true.

Re: Be careful about what you dislike

#157

Post by slavik81 »

The bit on CETA was interesting. I was very disappointed when I heard CETA was signed last week because I strongly opposed the copyright term extension and anticircumvention clauses from the 2009 leaked draft. However, as far as I can tell, those are not in the final agreement. Opps.

Re: Be careful about what you dislike

#158

Post by Imagenuity »

imagist wrote: post #115
chucksmash wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Espousing nuanced opinions and making effective arguments are often at odds though. It's very easy for people to lose the thread of an argument if it is chock full of footnotes. I try to aim for "strong opinions, weakly held" - present a specific, actionable and strong position but be open to changing it if a better argument is made.

There's a parable of a guy who lost his keys in the park at night. Upon realizing he lost his keys, he begins to look for the keys in the street near a street lamp. When his friend asks why he's looking for his keys in the street instead of in the park where he lost them, the guy responds that the light is better in the street. It's true that espousing nuanced opinions and making effective arguments are often at odds…

The Relativity of Wrong by Isaac Asimov http://chem.tufts.edu/answersinscience/relativityofwrong.htm is one of the essays on this subject.

Re: Be careful about what you dislike

#159

Post by dredmorbius »

oxide wrote: post #148
Animats wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How concentrated? Concentrated hydrogen peroxide (> 90%) is a rocket fuel. Above 8% is considered somewhat hazardous. Above 28%, hazmat precautions (corrosive, burns skin). Above 35%, unstable. Above 50%, even large industrial users usually don't go.[1] [1] http://www.h2o2.com/technical-library/default.aspx?pid=76&

I'm not sure, I believe it's 35% or more. She once mentioned that "it's not the legit stuff unless you have to sign a hazardous materials sheet" or something to that affect.

Odds are good that the supplier's lying on both the benefits and qualities (concentration). A fake MSDS/hazmat sheet would be par for the course.

Re: Be careful about what you dislike

#160

Post by dredmorbius »

sctb wrote: post #143
TheBobinator wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are people for whom Ego and social status are more important than life itself. They, like you, and the OP who stated effectively "I can't converse with people who have strongly held opinions", are usually people with such little confidence that the only thing they have going for them is the hope that a nice suit and not rocking the boat will get them through life comfortably. There are people who are there to a…

> Forgive my vitriol, but after seeing those people flush untold millions down the drain and hurt people and families countless times, they belong flipping burgers or in a mass grave. We can't, unfortunately. Hacker News is a place for civil discussion; please don't post like this.

The view stated is that positions held in opposition to all fact and experience are exceedingly and manifestly harmful.

History bears this out. There's nothing quite so violently dangerous as wishful thinking.

I'd prefer HN supported that perspective, and do so aggressively.

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