Be careful about what you dislike • Hacker News Board

Re: Be careful about what you dislike

#131

Post by booleandilemma » Sat, Nov 05, 2016, 8:21 PM UTC

hellofunk wrote: post #51

I have realized over the years that it is wise to be naturally skeptical of any opinion that is strong, either positive or negative. People who have an appreciation for gray areas, even if they ultimately do have a preference, tend to be a lot more emotionally balanced than those who maintain a very strong stance on something. I have noticed this so consistently over the last 15 years that I now consider it a fundame…

Go not to the Elves for counsel, for they will say both no and yes.

J. R. R. Tolkien

Re: Be careful about what you dislike

#132

Post by PerfectElement » Sat, Nov 05, 2016, 8:27 PM UTC

hellofunk wrote: post #51

I have realized over the years that it is wise to be naturally skeptical of any opinion that is strong, either positive or negative. People who have an appreciation for gray areas, even if they ultimately do have a preference, tend to be a lot more emotionally balanced than those who maintain a very strong stance on something. I have noticed this so consistently over the last 15 years that I now consider it a fundame…

That's only true for opinions that are not generally accepted.

I believe you have strong opinions about all sorts of things, e.g. you probably have a strong stance against slavery. Take this strong stance 300 years back, and you would be seen as an emotionally unbalanced person, by your standard.

I'm glad there are people with strong opinions. The world would be a much darker place if everyone was always on the fence.

Re: Be careful about what you dislike

#133

Post by amag » Sat, Nov 05, 2016, 8:42 PM UTC

hellofunk wrote: post #51

I have realized over the years that it is wise to be naturally skeptical of any opinion that is strong, either positive or negative. People who have an appreciation for gray areas, even if they ultimately do have a preference, tend to be a lot more emotionally balanced than those who maintain a very strong stance on something. I have noticed this so consistently over the last 15 years that I now consider it a fundame…

It seems you have a very strong opinion about who you can work and socialize with... ;P

Re: Be careful about what you dislike

#134

Post by benjohnson » Sat, Nov 05, 2016, 8:44 PM UTC

booleandilemma wrote: post #131

hellofunk wrote: post #51

I have realized over the years that it is wise to be naturally skeptical of any opinion that is strong, either positive or negative. People who have an appreciation for gray areas, even if they ultimately do have a preference, tend to be a lot more emotionally balanced than those who maintain a very strong stance on something. I have noticed this so consistently over the last 15 years that I now consider it a fundame…

Go not to the Elves for counsel, for they will say both no and yes. J. R. R. Tolkien

“Ask two Jews, get three opinions.” - a jewish quip given to me by Rabbi Glickman.

Re: Be careful about what you dislike

#135

Post by amag » Sat, Nov 05, 2016, 8:53 PM UTC

twic wrote: post #69

hiou wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find that people who sit in the greys tend to be very worried about their public perception or have very little passion beyond maintaining personal comfort. The people I look for are those that take strong stands but are willing and able to adjust and even quickly reverse those stances. To me it's the difference between a leader and a worker bee.

> The people I look for are those that take strong stands but are willing and able to adjust and even quickly reverse those stances. Sometimes called "strong opinions, weakly held". I find this principle to be incoherent - if you understand something well enough to have a strong opinion, you understand it well enough to hold that opinion strongly. Holding strong opinions on things you don't understand that well seems…

Often I find the opposite, a better understanding of something means that you have to very clearly understand both its pros and its cons.

So by understanding something you dislike well, you need to appreciate its pros, which will lead to a weaker negative opinion about it. Conversely, understanding something you like well, means you need to come to terms with its cons as well, which should lead to moderation as well.

Re: Be careful about what you dislike

#136

Post by Animats » Sat, Nov 05, 2016, 9:00 PM UTC

oxide wrote: post #72

twic wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The people I look for are those that take strong stands but are willing and able to adjust and even quickly reverse those stances. Sometimes called "strong opinions, weakly held". I find this principle to be incoherent - if you understand something well enough to have a strong opinion, you understand it well enough to hold that opinion strongly. Holding strong opinions on things you don't understand that well seems…

We all know arguing against a strongly held opinion usually results in the person with the strong opinion digging their heels in even deeper. At that point, things like reason kind of go by the wayside and don't have much effect. As a poor example, my mother has fully bought into a snake-oil scheme where they sell you concentrated hydrogen peroxide as a cure-all. She won't hear a word against it, she always brings th…

How concentrated? Concentrated hydrogen peroxide (> 90%) is a rocket fuel. Above 8% is considered somewhat hazardous. Above 28%, hazmat precautions (corrosive, burns skin). Above 35%, unstable. Above 50%, even large industrial users usually don't go.[1]

[1] http://www.h2o2.com/technical-library/default.aspx?pid=76&

Re: Be careful about what you dislike

#137

Post by amag » Sat, Nov 05, 2016, 9:02 PM UTC

crimsonalucard wrote: post #96

hellofunk wrote: post #51

I have realized over the years that it is wise to be naturally skeptical of any opinion that is strong, either positive or negative. People who have an appreciation for gray areas, even if they ultimately do have a preference, tend to be a lot more emotionally balanced than those who maintain a very strong stance on something. I have noticed this so consistently over the last 15 years that I now consider it a fundame…

This is true, however, I think the people who have strong opinions end up becoming successful entrepreneurs.

Or utterly failed ones...

Re: Be careful about what you dislike

#138

Post by _greim_ » Sat, Nov 05, 2016, 9:03 PM UTC

jacobolus wrote: post #77

chucksmash wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Espousing nuanced opinions and making effective arguments are often at odds though. It's very easy for people to lose the thread of an argument if it is chock full of footnotes. I try to aim for "strong opinions, weakly held" - present a specific, actionable and strong position but be open to changing it if a better argument is made.

More to the point, nuanced opinions are at odds with clickbait/flamebait. If you want to get lots of attention and start a big internet fight, say the most outrageous aggressive thing you can, and argue sloppily, with just enough reasoning behind you to get the folks who agree with you to come fight for your side.

Or, make the headline outrageous, but in the body apologize for the clickbait headline and proceed to say a bunch of nuanced and reasonable things.

Re: Be careful about what you dislike

#139

Post by adrusi » Sat, Nov 05, 2016, 9:03 PM UTC

ythl wrote: post #118

adrusi wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't need to understand something well to be justified in having a strong opinion about it. Your belief should be based on the evidence you have, even if that means a small amount that leads you to an extreme conclusion. Otherwise you will have a bias toward the median belief, and there's no reason to expect, in general, that a median belief is any better than an extreme one. The strength of your evidence should…

> Your belief should be based on the evidence you have, even if that means a small amount that leads you to an extreme conclusion. That's one way of thinking, but I reject it. You'll easily be manipulated by political and corporate agendas if you think this way. Often my own intuition is at odds with the "evidence I have" and I turn out to be right later. If I had jumped to the (extreme) conclusion that smoking was h…

You won't be easily manipulated by virtue of having strong opinions, as long as they're weakly held, because you'll probably state your strong opinion to someone who knows better than you. If your opinion is actually weakly held, you'll recognize that their opinion is closer to the truth and adjust yours accordingly.

Often my own intuition is at odds with the "evidence I have" and I turn out to be right later.

I mean evidence in a broad sense, encompassing all information available to you for basing your worldview upon, including your intuition. If your intuition has been reliable in the past, and the scientific evidence was being put out by entities with obvious incentives for a certain conclusion, then it's rational to weigh your intuition highly relative to the scientific evidence.

Re: Be careful about what you dislike

#140

Post by warlox » Sat, Nov 05, 2016, 9:38 PM UTC

hellofunk wrote: post #51

I have realized over the years that it is wise to be naturally skeptical of any opinion that is strong, either positive or negative. People who have an appreciation for gray areas, even if they ultimately do have a preference, tend to be a lot more emotionally balanced than those who maintain a very strong stance on something. I have noticed this so consistently over the last 15 years that I now consider it a fundame…

There are issues where being unable to take a strong stance is indicative of a weak mind, such as Nazism and genocide. If you can't stand strongly against things like those, you're simply a bad person.